DOJ Launches "Egregious" Criminal Probe into Trump Accuser E. Jean Carroll
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This is democracyow democracynow.org. I'm Amy Goodman with Nurmine Sher.
5 seconds
We
end today's show with the latest news that the Justice Department has
launched a criminal investigation into the writer Eugene Carol.
According to the New York13 seconds
Times and CNN, the inquiries looking into whether Carol committed perjury in a 2022 deposition. That's despite a 202422 seconds
ruling by a federal appeals court panel that dismissed claims Eugene Carol committed perjury. In 2019, Carol30 seconds
published
a memoir describing an encounter in the 1990s when she says Trump
sexually assaulted her in a department store dressing room. When39 seconds
Trump
denied the account, Carol sued him and won $5 million in damages with a
unanimous New York jury finding Trump liable for sexual abuse and
defamation.49 seconds
After Trump made disparaging remarks about Eugene Carol, she sued him again and won a second defamation judgment for58 seconds
over $83 million. Federal courts have upheld both verdicts. Though on Wednesday, the US Supreme Court deferred1 minute, 5 seconds
its decision on whether to hear President Trump's appeal of the $5 million civil verdict. It was the 12th1 minute, 13 seconds
time the Supreme Court has deferred the appeal. We'll have more um right now with Deborah Turkheimr, professor of law1 minute, 21 seconds
at Northwestern University and the author of Credible: Why We Doubt Accusers and Protect Abusers. Um,1 minute, 30 seconds
Professor Turkheimer, if you can respond to this latest news that I think have rocked many in this country. President1 minute, 40 seconds
Trump faces paying Eugene Carol close to $90 million1 minute, 46 seconds
and
now his own Department of Justice is criminally investigating her. Can
you talk about the grounds and the history of this case?1 minute, 57 seconds
Yes, I can do that. Thanks for having me. Uh, I I guess we need to go back to October 2022.2 minutes, 5 seconds
During the discovery phase of Eugene Carol's lawsuit, she was deposed. And one of the questions that she was asked2 minutes, 14 seconds
pertained to whether uh she was getting any outside funding for her legal fees.2 minutes, 22 seconds
Uh, and she answered no. this Department of Justice investigation into perjury charges centers on that particular2 minutes, 31 seconds
response. So, it's a it's a very small piece of this lawsuit. Donald Trump has tried over and over again to impugn2 minutes, 40 seconds
Egene Carol's credibility around the sexual abuse allegations that has been unsuccessful over and over again. So2 minutes, 47 seconds
this is about the question of whether she knew when she answered no to that question about outside legal funding2 minutes, 54 seconds
that in fact billionaire Reed Hoffman had contributed some money to her uh to her case to her lawyers to to uh enable3 minutes, 3 seconds
this to actually come forward because as we know it's very expensive to uh to sue civily and particularly to go up against3 minutes, 12 seconds
someone with the resources of Donald Trump. So this perjury investigation centers on that deposition. It's unusual3 minutes, 20 seconds
in so many ways. Amy, explain those ways.3 minutes, 24 seconds
So there are some very technical uh let's say obstacles uh to uh to proving perjury in this case that I'm thinking3 minutes, 32 seconds
about even at this very early stage of an investigation. So, you know, one point to make is that Egene Carol must3 minutes, 41 seconds
have willfully or knowingly lied under oath in this deposition. If she simply made a mistake, if she wasn't aware of3 minutes, 49 seconds
whatever funding arrangement was in place, that's not perjury. Uh, a second point is that the uh the statement must3 minutes, 57 seconds
uh have some material bearing on the uh the likely outcome of the case here.4 minutes, 3 seconds
When Eugene and Carol's allegations went to trial, ultimately the judge decided that none of this uh none of this should4 minutes, 12 seconds
even come into evidence. It was too tangential uh to bear in any meaningful way on the case. So that materiality4 minutes, 20 seconds
requirement is going to be tough. The venue is unusual here. Why Chicago, you might ask? Well, it it's unclear. Uh,4 minutes, 29 seconds
apparently there may be some connection to one of Reed Hoffman's nonprofits, but but venue is ordinarily in the location4 minutes, 37 seconds
where an offense occurred. There's no allegation that the funding of the uh legal fees was itself improper. So I4 minutes, 46 seconds
find
that to be curious. And then the last point is probably the most
important which is there is a due process right uh not to be the victim
of4 minutes, 56 seconds
any kind of selective or vindictive prosecution and it's very apparent on the face of this that the use of the5 minutes, 4 seconds
justice department to go after Eugene Carol in this way is completely unprecedented. It is an obvious uh5 minutes, 14 seconds
indication that Donald Trump continues to um go after Eene Carol in this5 minutes, 21 seconds
vendetta and in this case he's using the taxpayer funded uh justice department to5 minutes, 29 seconds
do that. These cases are brought in our name in the name of the people of the United States and it's it's frankly5 minutes, 37 seconds
gling.
I mean, so what broader concerns arise uh from this uh Department of
Justice investigating someone who has successfully sued a sitting
president?5 minutes, 49 seconds
Well, [snorts] there there is no precedent for anything like this. To to take uh one question and answer in a5 minutes, 56 seconds
civil case um and to use that uh as the basis for this federal investigation, it6 minutes, 3 seconds
raises questions about the allocation of resources. Why is this a federal case?6 minutes, 9 seconds
Why is it in the interest of justice to go after Eugene Carol at this moment in time? And I think the inescapable6 minutes, 17 seconds
conclusion is that the Justice Department is being used to pursue uh Donald Trump's continuing6 minutes, 23 seconds
um revenge tour against Eugene Carol. I will also note that unlike cases against6 minutes, 31 seconds
James Comey, Leticia James, Adam Schiff, Jerome Powell, Eugene Carol is and6 minutes, 38 seconds
always has been a private citizen. And so there's something about this uh instance that I think may strike people6 minutes, 45 seconds
as even more egregious than some examples in the past where selective or vindictive prosecution is is very much6 minutes, 52 seconds
in the mix. This seems different. And I should say it's yet another example of the ways in which Donald Trump has tried7 minutes
to silence Eugene Carol, has tried to deter her from coming forward, has tried to threaten her into keeping quiet. Even7 minutes, 8 seconds
if this investigation goes nowhere, even if there are no successful perjury charges, as I suspect in the end there7 minutes, 15 seconds
will
be no successful perjury charges, it's hugely daunting to know that you
are being investigated by the Justice Department. And it's very
interesting7 minutes, 24 seconds
that he does this at the time of the theatrical release of the film about her called Ask Eene. And also that this came7 minutes, 33 seconds
out after yesterday. If you can in this last 30 seconds explain what the Supreme Court did in Eugene's case.7 minutes, 43 seconds
So,
the Supreme Court is continuing to sort of kick the can down the road
when it comes to deciding uh whether Donald Trump has has any reason not
to pay the7 minutes, 52 seconds
judgment against him. It seems as if they may be waiting for his uh appeal to come up in the the second case. You8 minutes
mentioned that there were two verdicts against him. Um one for around $5 million, one for around $83 million. And8 minutes, 7 seconds
it
may be that they're sort of waiting to consolidate his arguments. Um we
we we won't know for a bit. Um but right now the Supreme Court is sort
of sitting on these cases.8 minutes, 17 seconds
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