https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4465fd9NPG0
Transcript
Intro
I mean, it does raise the question, should we just have AI as governing the country? Like, is would that be better?
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, yeah, the the ballroom is going to transition into an AI data center and
all the CEOs are going to be there that tried to pay for it and they're just going to and then they they're just
going to sort of whatever they do, program the AI to just run the country and kill us all. Welcome to Pod Save
America. I'm John Favro. I'm Dan Feifer. And I'm Alex Wagner. On today's show, we're going to talk Trump's demand that
the Justice Department pay him $230 million, handing over the keys to our elections to election deniers, the
demolition of the East Wing, the latest with Graham Platner in Maine, and all the elections coming up in less than two
weeks. Then you'll hear Tommy's conversation with Denise Feriozi from the Pipeline Fund about building a
deeper Democratic bench and why it's so important for people to run for local office. But first, Alex, welcome back to
the show. Oh, guys, I'm thrilled. Now, contractually, Dan is supposed to be in the same room with me, so I'll have to
talk
to HR about that. Well, you didn't come to If you had come to the West
Coast, then we could have done that. Okay. All right. Well, you know,
have
both of you sitting around this table with me. We would love to be We would love to be I'm happy to be here because it's a big
day for me and huge day as a cousin to the Crooked family. Tell us all about it. You have your new
podcast, uh, Runaway Country. Yes, Runaway Country is live. The first episode is out. For people who have
missed my shameless and um unending promotion of it, I'll just give you a little like taste. It is all about
hearing
from people who are at the center of these big headline stories that in
many ways have become abstract because there's so damn many of them.
And this week we are talking to an immigration court judge who was recently fired because Trump is firing all the
people that know about immigration law and who has had firstirhand experience dealing with ICE agents in her courtroom
and outside her courtroom. has had to adjudicate wrenching cases as sobbing and screaming is heard through the walls
on the other side has a had a case log of thousands of cases there I think are
only 600 of these judges left they have to deal with 3.8 8 million immigration cases. Um, and it's really a story from,
you know, a human firshand perspective about the, you know, what Trump is trying to do to our system of due
process. Um so we have judge um Anam Patit who's our you know person giving
us that visceral emotional storytelling and then some really high quality analysis from the great Andrew Weissman
who is uh himself a target of Trump as a former member of the department of justice and talks a lot about kind of
what we can expect in terms of rule of law and its erosion in the Trump years. It's a very good conversation. I'm proud
of it. I hope everybody likes it and you'll you'll leave angry but maybe
inspired to try and do something about it. I um absolutely love the first episode.
Uh I like loved the idea for the podcast and knew that you would crush it, but when I listened to the first episode, it
reminded me that uh especially in the second Trump administration, there's just so much news, so many headlines.
And to me, what's broken through and really made me angriest and inspired me
are these like individual stories of people who've been affected by what's happening because I think that can get
lost in just the discussion of the headlines. And sitting down and listening to uh the judge speak and what
she's
gone through, what she went through, what's happening in a lot of these
courtrooms, it was just it was fascinating, enraging um and it did it
did inspire me to to keep going. So well and to and also maybe I think we just need some storytelling to help us
understand the moment, right? It's just like it's all so it's become kind of abstract. That's for those of us lucky
enough not to be affected directly by I you know family members getting snatched off the street or um losing their health
insurance
or whatever the issue is. But uh I think it's really important. I know I
have a lot of friends who are like I I don't even know how to parse it.
You
know I don't know how to think about it. And I think one way is just on the human level. So that's Runaway Country guys.
New episodes of Runaway Country drop every Thursday uh on YouTube and wherever you get your podcast. So uh go
ahead
right now. Go subscribe while you're listening to this so you don't
miss an episode. Uh you'll thank us later. Uh we're excited, Alex. All
Trump's corruption
right, let's get to the news. Uh people are paying higher prices thanks to Trump's tariffs. Inflation's on the
rise. Unemployment's on the rise. Health insurance is about to get a lot more expensive for millions. And we are
recording this on day 23 of a government shutdown that has left hundreds of thousands of people out of work. Many
who won't get their jobs back because the White House has decided to uh use the shutdown uh as an excuse to just
fire people. But good news, thanks to the presidency, Donald Trump has never
been richer. Uh, and now he's demanding that taxpayers cut him a personal check
for $230 million. The New York Times reports that Trump
filed complaints against the federal government for investigating his many alleged crimes. And now the federal
government, run by Donald Trump, is likely to settle those claims in Donald
Trump's favor. Surprise, surprise. to the tune of up to $230 million paid for
by all of us. Trump was asked about this novel arrangement in the Oval this week.
Here he is. I don't know what the numbers are. I don't even talk to them about it. All I know is that uh they would owe me a lot
of
money, but I don't I'm not looking for money. I'd give it to charity or
something. I would give it to charity. With the country, it's
interesting
because I'm the one that makes a decision, right? And uh you know that decision would have to go across my desk
and it's awfully strange to make a decision where I'm paying myself. But I was damaged very greatly and any money
that I would get I would give to charity. It's awfully strange to be making a decision where I pay myself and yet I
will go ahead and do it anyway. But rest assure I'm sure he will be, you know, giving it to a charity that all the
America the American taxpayers probably support, right? Um, mind-boggling corruption here. We haven't even gotten
to Trump's pardon of the crypto terrorist financer uh who made his family rich. We'll get there. But I'm
sure a lot of people are wondering, how the hell can Trump just raid the Treasury like this, Dan?
Well, technically he can't. I know this word is going to feel very
2017, but you remember now old school early season.
I know, but there was a lot of convers I hatch act is is no longer and as we
will point out on this podcast many times Trump is immune from the hatch act. Um but I like there was a lot of
discussion in 2017 about foreign governments buying hotel rooms at the
Trump at the uh recently departed Trump hotel as a way to put money in Trump's
pocket.
That worked it way through the courts did not happen. There is another
emoleuments clause which is very specific to domestic emolements which
says the president of the United States cannot receive money beyond his salary as designated by Congress from the
government the federal government or the state government. This would be a very clear and obvious violation of that. So
that is one. Second, I mean this is he's going to try to do it. Will the Supreme Supreme Court would have to twist itself
in some relatively unprecedented knots to let him keep this money? They might do that. They might not. But just the
process by which this happens is unbelievable because the specific Department of Justice manual says that
any award, any sort of reparations award like this of more than $4 million must be approved by either the associate
attorney general or the deputy attorney general. The associate attorney general is a man who is a favorite lawyer of
Trump
allies and defended a lot of them through all of these cases. And the
deputy attorney general is Trump's personal attorney.
So,
seems pretty cool. So, it seems like he's got a good chance. Uh, yes,
it seems like he's put the right people in place. Alex, what did you
make
of
this story? Well, I Okay, a couple things. One is like if you're one of
the stooges that Trump's installed at the Department of
Justice, I feel like basically everything you're doing at this point, you know, sort of secretly in the back
of your head might be unconstitutional, could actually get you indicted, but you're just gunning for a pardon. So, if
you're Todd Blanch, you're like, you know, I'm in already, so I can't risk uh not getting the pardon. So, I'm all I'm
all
in. If I'm in for a penny, I'm in for a pound. That's a that's a bad
incentive structure. or I'm just going to stay for people who are the
nation's
top law enforcement officials. Uh the other piece is I think people should understand why Trump is even able
to do this. The the law exists for Americans who are oh I don't know
unlawfully detained by ICE. They are the victims of uses of excessive force from federal law enforcement officers. And
you know there are stories like gutting stories of people who are I mean you can imagine in this season of ICE uh
snatching and detention. People who are American citizens who are you know pepper-sprayed by ICE whose cars are
destroyed by ICE whose lives are in some ways traumatized by ICE who then try and use this law to seek some kind of
reparations. They're it is very hard to get any money from the federal
government because you were wronged. And the idea that Donald Trump is going to try and get $250 million from the
American taxpayer, which by the way, John, he suggested, I believe, today may go to pay for the new 90,000 square foot
ballroom at the White House. Yes. Great use of taxpayer funds. Is just um it is
appalling even for Donald Trump, right? It's a mashup of like the two worst things he's done this week that he could
be suing the Justice Department to pay for a fascist monstrosity attached to the White House residence. I mean, it's
just and and the and and the the you know, the asymmetry of who's getting who
could get the money and who doesn't get the money is decidedly unamerican. I will say I believe, and I'm not an
expert in this, he can get the money, he can get the payout, and we won't know until the end of the year when the sort
of receipts are tallied effectively and the uh the DOJ has to report out his numbers.
It can be a it can be a basically a secret settlement uh when it actually happens. They could theoretically also defer the
payment until after his presidency to get around the embaluments clause, right? The um the Times did a follow-up
story um actually talking about sort of that the double standard here and they mentioned uh George Reddus uh who's the
Iraq war veteran um from out here in California who ICE detained for 3 days.
I've talked about him to Miller interviewed him on Bullwark. Um there's a horrifying story uh just taken away
from his family for 3 days and for no reason, never charged with anything. And he has filed one of these claims and um
has not heard at all uh back from the government. And if no one gets back to him within 6 months, he can sue under
the federal uh tort reform act. But there is this loophole there where uh
federal agents and federal officers have like pretty broad latitude uh and
discretion to to act sort of like in the line of duty here. And it's like it's basically like immunity and which is why
so few people get these claims heard. But Donald Trump's going to get it he's not going to get it heard. He's just
going to just settle it because he's in charge of the government and his former defense lawyers are running the
Department of Justice. Just 200. It's crazy. It's the it's the it's the worst example of corruption yet, I think.
Well, it does bring to mind like why even bother with the like, you know, the the pres like why even pretend that this
is anything other than stealing from the government? Like Andrew Weissman told me on the podcast this week like why not
just go for Fort Knox? Just like go in there and take some gold bars, right? Like that's basically what's happening here.
Yeah, that'll be that'll be year six. Um, as I mentioned, Trump isn't the only convicted criminal profiting off his
connections. Uh, Changpang Xho, also known as CZ, the founder of Binance crypto exchange. Uh, he'd been convicted
of failing to report financial transactions from terrorist organizations like Hamas, al-Qaeda, and
ISIS that were using Binance to launder money. Then, Binance made a multibillion
dollar deal with the Trump family crypto company. CZ tweeted that he wouldn't
mind a pardon. And now it looks like CZ and Binance are going to be back in business. Win for Binance, win for the
terrorist moneyaunderers, most importantly, a win for Donald Trump. Uh he was asked about this uh by Caitlyn
Collins of CNN um at the White House today. Uh let's listen. Can you explain why you chose to pardon
him and did it have anything to do with his involvement in your family? The founder of Binance. He has a involvement
in your own crypto. A lot of people say that he wasn't guilty of anything. He served four months in jail and they say
that uh he was not guilty of anything that what he did well you don't know much about crypto you know nothing about
you know nothing about nothing you fake news but uh I've been told by a lot of
support he had a lot of support and they said that what he did is not even a crime it wasn't a crime that he was
persecuted by the Biden administration uh and so I gave him a pardon at the
request of a lot of very good people you think a lot of those good people were Eric, Don Jr., Hamas, ISIS, like
what? Not a crime. Not a crime. Allowing allowing your crypto uh company to be uh
crypto exchange to be a to double as a money laundering operation for al-Qaeda,
ISIS, and Hamas. Not a crime. I mean, when you go back and read the
files on this and the CA and the evidence, it was just they like they were explicitly trying to hide evidence.
I mean it's like they're obviously guilty here. This has two ch like we can get to the corruption of in a second but
it's going to CZ in is in Bance will be back against the United States and is going to end the department of justice
monitoring
of the program almost certainly and then the separate monitoring
agreement where uh the Treasury Department the people who do
terrorist financing there are monitoring how Binance does its activities that does not end on its own from this pardon
but all it requires is Scott Besson to just say it can end. And so they're like guy, right? I mean,
Scott
Bessett. Yeah. Yeah. I would trust it. He's he's he's the bull work.
He'll he'll stand in there. Do we not care about uh terrorist
financing uh anymore? I thought I thought I thought we were uh going after Antifa and not just not just the violent
Antifa soldiers in the streets, but all of their all of the groups funding them,
right? I thought that was a big big part of uh the Trump Vance agenda here. No, Alex. Uh the Antifa stuff is just so
they
can tap your phone, John. That's true. Yeah. Well, uh which I shouldn't
even joke about because Yeah. You know, a quarter of the
FBI agents who used to deal with cyber crimes, counterterrorism, they've been
moved over to immigration enforcement. Like you talk about the disassembly of the national security infrastructure and
it has been conducted weirdly in the shadows. I mean, even though it's it's clear what's happening, there hasn't
been paid nearly enough attention. This is just another plank in all of that. I mean, like we're now making it much
easier for terrorists to launder money and fund terrorist operations like on all levels. At the same time, the reason
Trump is doing this is because what is it? World Liberty Financial, his crypto company, has been grossly enriched by CZ
and Co. And like, you know, we talk about what it's going to look like if and when Trump ever leaves the White
House. he's going to be, you know, at least on paper, a very rich man because he has established a full-blown
kleptocracy. I mean, that is all this is. Like, you cannot look at the, you know, corporations that are funding the
destruction of the East Wing and the pardoning of these uh crypto bros and as anything other than just personal
enrichment of the the DOJ suit. I mean, all of it's just so that he can get rich. It is full-blown kiplecracy at
this point. I mean the fact pattern here is stunning, right? Which is World Libya Financial uh debuts this new coin called
USD1. Binance then gets a two $2 billion investment that they want paid for in
USD1 coins. So that's a it's a giant boost for uh world financial and this
new coin world. Much of the growth in the USD1 coin has also come from its presence on a trading platform called
Pancake Swap which is administered by Binance. Uh, CZ tweets out that like any
felon, he would he would welcome a pardon. CZ then hires one of Donald Trump Jr.'s best friends as his
lobbyist.
CZ gets the pardon. It's not complicated. It is not. No, like you don't
have to know anything about crypto to understand exactly what
happens.
Give give billions of dollars to Trump's family, get a pardon. Have
have some connections, reach out to the right people, have enough money,
you
can commit any crime you want. And yet, if the government uh treats you poorly,
if it abuses you, if it breaks the law to hurt you, then you are screwed. See you later.
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sleep cooler, recover faster, perform better. Uh, now you might be thinking all this corruption might make voters
Trump's election scams
pretty angry and they may take that out on the the president and his party in future elections. Unfortunately, the uh
the president has thought of that, too. Here's another Time story from this week. Quote, "Election officials from
nearly all 50 states gathered on a call last month with the Homeland Security Department's point person on election
integrity and quote, "Many of them left alarmed because the official uh who is a
kooky election denier activist named Heather Honey uh talked about rigged voting machines favoring Democrats on
this call. During a call with election denier activists in March, right before Honey was appointed, she said that in
future elections, Trump could declare a national emergency based on his team's
investigation of the 2020 election that would then allow the White House to
force new election rules and mandates on states and local governments. Uh Trump
himself alluded to this in the Oval this week. Here he is. We can never let what happened in the 2020 election happen
again. We just can't let that happen. And so the way we go, I know Kish is working on it. Everybody's working on
it, but and uh certainly Tulsi is working on it. We can't let that happen again to our country. Look at what's
happened where you have So, uh what do you think Cash and Tulsi are working on, guys?
Dan, you think what what you think the uh the intelligence director and the FBI director, they working on uh they're
working on few what what do they have to do with our elections? This whole story is so bizarre in so
many ways. Um there's like the very clear real problem or immediate problem that long before Donald Trump was making
up
stories about stolen elections, there were people trying to interfere
in our elections, particularly foreign governments. And that's why these
jobs
exist to try to stop that from happening. We know that Russia, Iran, China have tried to hack into things,
interfere with elections. They're going to do that again. And now instead of having actual professionals in the jobs
designed to stop them, we have a bunch of morons who believe the dumbest conspiracy theories alive. So
that's like a real threat that like we like that is bigger than whatever it is they can do. Now, this person's idea
that
Trump could declare a national emergency and seize elections is not
that is not a thing. That's not a thing that can happen. That's not a
power he
has. the elections are very clearly administered by uh states, right? They
don't
have to listen to the federal government on these things and they can't
change the rules. They can't uh suspend the election. That is not
something
that that Trump has the power to do whether he declares a national
emergency or not. The thing that is alarming, and this is where the cash
patell piece comes in, is in a world in which the Democrats take the House narrowly or take the Senate narrowly,
you can see them with the help of the FBI and the DOJ and the DHS
like trumping up uh pun intended, investigate, you know, claims of voter fraud and investigations like he wanted
to seize the voting machines in 2020. His homeland secretary would not let him back then. His homeland security his
homeland
secret security secretary will definitely let him this time. And that's
where like he can't cancel elections, he can't stop the elections, but
he has
great power to cast doubt on them uh and mess with the cutting counting of the votes. Yeah, Alex, I heard Andrew Weissman
talked to you about this on in Runaway Country uh in the episode about his fear that the DOJ would could actually seize
the voting machines, which seems to me like seems like that should go through court
before they get to seize the voting machines. No. Was Alien Cannon busy? I don't know. I mean, like I I I um
I think I think there's two things to talk about. One is the 2026 midterms, and already we know that there's going
to be I mean, with the redistricting um shenanigans, which is too too flippant
to
term for what Trump is trying to do, they they're already trying to
steal that election. But, you know, when you see the presence of
National Guard
troops,
when you see Trump already laying the groundwork for saying, you know,
this is a national emergency. We need to send in security. Like you can
see a world in which he he tries to with blue cities and states on election day and and and depress the vote. You
can absolutely see ahead of 2028 with early and mailin voting. That's already in the list of demands that
these psychos that are now installed in the Trump administration to oversee election integrity. That's already
something they're asking for. What's so surprising to me in the reporting on this is that after the 2024 election,
rather than like lay down arms and be like, "Oh, look, Donald Trump got reelected, like maybe the system isn't
broken." They're newly emboldened to make a set of asks of this president.
They're installed in positions of power and they're working behind the scenes to do what they can. I mean, the Times
suggests
that there could be some kind of federal intrusion into state election
results. I'm with Dan. I think it's like a little early to panic about
that
happening, but I don't think anything's off the table given where we are. I mean, the brazenness of his immigration
drag nets and his the lawlessness of the ICE officers and the National Guard troops trying to fment literally a civil
war between states. I is it like that far of a stretch to see him doing something on election day in a blue city
or blue state? I don't think so. And and as if we we've learned from 2020, it's like once you put the po you cannot put
the toothpaste back in the tube. Once the poison is out in the air and people believe that something wrong has
something wicked has happened in a certain precinct, you know, it becomes very difficult to convince people
otherwise. And delegitimizing those who are elected to the House, I mean, they're not seating people who were duly
elected, right? Cuz they're it's advantageous to Democrats. Like anything's on the table. And um people
should know Heather Honey's name, right? like we need to inform ourselves about the people who are I think soon going to
become the tip of the spear for Trump in and around elections because um we all know Rudy Giuliani, we we remember Clea
Mitchell, but there's another wave. There's like Gen 2.0 and they have power and they're at work right now um trying
to undermine our right to vote. Yeah. Yeah, I think my first reaction when I read this or I saw the headlines
with the story and then some other stories about like Trump appointing 2020
election deniers to look back at the 2020 election and do yet another investigation is I was like, "Oh, maybe
this just a bunch of cooks trying to fight the last war and Trump just wants to put out some report that says, oh, it
was rigged in 2020 and that's just going to be, you know, he's going to make him happy." But this piece, it really gets
to the the the the challenge here and the and the what's really scary is that they are looking ahead to future
elections. This is not just about relitigating 2020. This is about 2026, 2028 and beyond. And that's why people I
think have to really pay attention to it. Um I will say Trump and his uh his goons uh aren't treating the White House
White House ballroom
as a rental these days. Uh, every president puts their own stamp on the historic building and plenty have made
renovations during their tenure. Nothing in our lifetimes has come close to what Trump is doing. Demolishing the entire
east- wing of the White House to make room for a new 90,000 square ft, $300
million ballroom that nobody needs and nobody asked for. Uh, like most of Trump's construction projects, he sold
this one to people by lying about its costs, its footprint, how disruptive it will be. Um, let's listen to how Trump's
explanation has, shall we say, evolved over time. It won't interfere with the current building. It won't be. It'll be uh uh
near it, but not touching it. And pays total respect to the existing building, which I'm the biggest fan of. It's my
favorite. It's my favorite place. I love it. You probably hear the beautiful sound of construction to the back. You
hear that sound? Oh, that's music to my ears. I love that sound. Other people don't like it. I love it, Josh. I think
when I hear that sound, it reminds me of money.
Uh for those of you just listening, uh that last clip is just a jackhammer going while the uh the last remains of
the East Wing are demolished. It's gone now. It's it is now the East Wing is gone of the White House. Um you guys
have both spent time in the White House, particularly the East Wing. Initial reactions. Dan,
I am so mad about this. You're really Okay. Okay. Interesting. I am. I mean, it's just like it's
obviously not I'm not saying that it's the I'm unbiased in it. Like we worked in the White House. We spent time there.
It's a very special place, right? It's not Trump's house, not the president's house. It's the people's house.
Presidents
get to rent it for four years. And if they're lucky, they get to extend
that lease for another four years. And as you know, it is something
you like when you're in that house where you're the president or a staffer or even a visitor, you take like you
understand
the history of it. You take it so seriously. Like my wife worked in the
East Wing when she worked the first lady. She was telling me this
morning
about how when they had to move things around for events, you get the White House curator to come. They put on white
gloves cuz the stuff is so historic. I mean, it's like a very serious thing and to just destroy it for literally no
reason to build what is inevitably going to be a tacky massive ballroom that no one but Trump wanted. And he's
definitely
going to put his name on it. Like, you know, he looks at the Truman
balcony every day and says it's going to be the Trump ballroom. There's
going to be a plaque there. I look forward to the
first Dem the next Democratic president taking that plaque down. but to just destroy it. And it says something about
not that we need a reminder, but it says something about his view of everything. He doesn't care about anything that came
before
him. He doesn't care about anything that came after him. He doesn't
view this as the people's house. He doesn't view this as his role in
history. It's just about him in that moment. And if he can do this, right, think about all the other things he
could do, right? these he like he Caroline Lev was asked today about whether why Trump couldn't just d uh
raise
the Jefferson memorial and put something else up and she kind of
implied he could if he wanted to. Yeah, he can do he can do whatever he
wants.
Yeah, it's I think it's I think it's really sad. It's like there is
just something about just destroying a national historic landmark for no
reason that should that makes obviously me as someone who and all of us
who have a connection to it angry, but it should make everyone angry.
Alex, what do you think? I mean these are the ones that are putting Confederate statues back up in the name of history.
Yeah, that's a good point. Like good, good point. What? Like a flag waving patriotism,
preservation of history and you're just tearing down the entire east wing of the White House to build a corporate event
space to entertain Lockheed Martin executives or I don't know have like Mooney style mass weddings. I have no
idea. Like but it doesn't even matter, right? Like it's everything Dan said. This is a monument to ego. This is his
versail. This is monarchical behavior. this is maybe going to be funded ultimately by the American taxpayer. I
mean, it's so absolutely disgusting. But the way I think of it is, and the spin I've not spin, but the
way I've been sort of trying to like dig in and like manage my feelings of distress around this, it's like
everybody's got to stop thinking about the Trump administration in terms of election cycles. Like in the same way
that they tried to contextualize these renovations by saying, "Well, Calvin Kulage redid the attic and Barack Obama
put a basketball court in and Nixon put a bowling alley in." We need to think of Trump in terms of history and the
institutions he's destroying are going to take decades to rebuild. Everybody's got to dig the in and buckle up
because
nothing is going to be repaired by like next year. And honestly, we
need to think start thinking about politics like that, too. It's like it
does. It's
a long-term investment and he's trying to change the course of American history and it's going to take a powerful
citizen-led hopefully with the Democrats on board movement to undo the damage he
is doing right now. And like you don't need a better example than what he's doing to the East Wing. It's like, okay,
this is some history right here. Like it's it's going to take a it's going to take time to rebuild this and undo it
and um dig in. You know, you know what's not going to take time though? Demolishing the Trump ballroom next time
the next time there's a Democratic president. Well, it's going to be made of like, you know, drywall and like uh like fake gold
leaf. So, yeah, it's going to be a toxic dump site. I talked about this on uh Tim Miller's
on the Ballwork Pod with Tim Miller this week and we were talking about Jonathan Vanlass. PVL has been on on a tear about
this and he's like, I want every Democratic candidate for president to be
like, you know, one of the first days in office, I will bulldoze this. And I was
joking
about it. Tim and I were both joking about it. The more I read it, it's
like I I I still don't think it's like top priority for for any
Democrat
running for president. But yeah, I'd do it. I'd bulldo I'd bulldoze that You're going to be in the seat of the
bulldozer just like you and you and Charlie. going to spend a lot of I'm not going to spend a lot of time campaigning
on it or or running a whole bunch of ads about it. But yeah, I'm doing it for sure. The plaques, not just the
plaque
coming off that says it's the Trump ballroom. No, the whole ballroom's
coming down. Just bulldozed done. I read uh JVL's rebuttal to your
ridicule of him and it's quite compelling. I would say it he's he's doing a good job. He makes a he makes a very strong point
that
you don't need political capital for this, right? It's not like you
it's not like you're doing the the ballroom destruction and passing
Medicare for
all. You can do both. I will say the reason that it did not it's not like it hasn't made me as angry as some of the
other stories is it is destroying a historic monument and it is doing
unnecessarily and he's acting like a king like all that but um there's so many people being
like hurt right now like I I said this to Tim like if you you he can he can demolish the entire White House just
raise the whole thing to the ground if he takes ice off the street you know like there's So, it's and there's been
so much focus on it and I get why there's been so much focus on it because it's an image and boy when you see that
someone just took a like a this was on Twitter an aerial image because they were landing at DCA on the White House.
So, it was like the first image of the from afar the White House the West Wing and now just nothing. And it you you see
that
image and you're like, "Holy shit." That that breaks through. That
definitely breaks through. What's the polling on this, Dan?
Um, is that your next question, John? Well, you you can I mean now Sorry, I didn't mean to insert myself.
I love a good conversation like this so it doesn't seem as Yeah. No, Dan. I just I just know Dan has the polling
numbers. I want I want them. Didn't have it memorized cuz it was in the question. So it is Oh Sorry. There's
It's okay. You Now you've exposed me as a as a fraud. Okay. I'm just rolling.
I've
been like retweeting your polling post like Okay, whatever. I thought
you knew it, my man. Sorry. Just get yourself GPT. You don't need
Dan. Uh message box of seven bucks a month. Chassis features 20 bucks a month. It's
quite a deal. Take that $13 to the bank, people. Yuggov, Yuggov, 53% of Americans are
against the destruction of the East Wing. Uh, which is what's happen or I I think
the
question was the ballroom. Um, I think they said there's two questions.
There's the ballroom and there's the East Room. Yeah. And and the the
the destruction of
the East Wing is even worse. Yes. Yes. People are they are they don't want a ballroom. They don't think it's a
great use of time, energy, and resources right now, but they really don't think the president should bulldo the
White
House. Yeah, that's definitely because I think when I first heard the
ballroom, I was like, "Ugh, that's so Trump's. That's so
annoying. How much is that going to cost?" And I thought it was just going to be like tacked on to like the
end of the East Wing there. Like I just had a different vision. I Who knew that the whole east wing was coming
down? I mean, you had that vision cuz he told you that. He told you it would not affect the facade of the White House. So
I
you know how they used to like put those tents up that would be for
like big state dinners. I assumed they were just going to kind of build
out that
way.
That's sort of what I thought too. I thought it was going to be truly I
was I've been going through this with my wife all day. She's very upset
about
this is like her they bulldozed her office, right? They b the first
they Michelle Obama's office. The they bulldozed Melania Trump's office
metaphor
for a marriage. God. Yet another immigrant that the federal government
has come after. Yeah. It's really I mean it's it's like
like you're right in a world of like ICE raids and National Guard and people losing their health insurance like a
this
building and the memories that a lot of people have in it not just
people who work there people who have visited there it's obviously
second to that but
it's just it's like a sad thing. So apparently um you know Trump keeps saying that the taxpayers are not going
to fund Mara Lago on the PTOAC. Um but uh you know he's just going to finance
it with other money. And I I guess that's true because there's a bunch of corporate donors um that are financing
this thing. Alex, you were talking about this earlier. What's the uh sitting in one of their houses right now? Comcast.
Who's who's on the list here? Who's who's financing this thing? Uh, you know, it's interesting because there are
people and they're big corporations. None of them are going to surprise you maybe necessarily, but um the ones who
have explicitly committed money to the ballroom project
itself itself are Lheed Martin and I believe uh Booze Allen Hamilton and uh I
believe Google has also pledged 5 million or more for the White House
ballroom project. But then you have we have record of other companies including Comcast and uh who else am I missing?
Apple, Coinbase, uh T-Mobile, the Aden family, no surprise there, Microsoft, Amazon, Meta and Meta Platforms. Um and
the Winklevi, the the Tyler, the Winklvi, Howard Lutneck also giving money. It's a like this ties to this
easy
thing which is like a highly disproportionate number of crypto
companies and crypto people. The Winklevi are crypto entrepreneurs who
likes them a lot because they're from Central Casting as far as what he thinks crypto bro should look like. Yeah.
Um but but yeah, I mean it's it's like the inaugural slush fund. It's like here's a way for us to curry favor with
someone who's powerful with in front of we in front of whom we have business interests. Um because I don't think
Sundar Pachai really is that excited to have a space to entertain uh fellow CEOs. But here such such is the reality
uh in which we live. It's I I would like to see some kind of color of change campaign to have citizens contact these
corporations
and say, "Are you really for the destruction of this East Wing? Are you
really for the building of a monstrous 90,000 square foot ballroom?
Shame on you. Are you are you, you know, paying for the destruction of our living history?" Because off if you are.
It is uh it is pretty outrageous. It's also like a bunch of
the richest companies in the world. um who are doing just you know between
Booze Allen and the AI people. It's just it is it's like a a kind of
thing that if a if a if a liberal said this a couple years ago, they would be like mocked as a cringy resistance
person that the that Trump is going to bulldoze the White House and a new ballroom's going to be constructed with
the help of all of his corporate oligarchs. Like it's ridiculous. It's happening. I would also like to see
some account like there's no process by which that money is accounted for, right? This is not no a publicly like
there's no it's not like there's an FC report. So these companies have given $300 million. How do we know where that
money goes? How do we know how it's spent? Isn't it the park service somehow has a tab? There's like a there is a actually
a
a wing of the government that is dedicated to taking in the money that I
think is in turn managed by the National Park Service. I could be
wrong, but
there is some receptacle for this specifically earmarked money. So, someone somewhere has a ledger.
But all this all these privately funded White House things are all slush funds where like when you they're privately
funded like the inauguration was the redecorating funds or slush they're you never really they don't have
like
we have transparency since we know companies that have done this and
individuals who've done it but there's not any sense of how the money is
spent.
It's
not audited in any way, shape or form. Maybe a Democratic majority can
do that when it get if we get one. If Heather Honey doesn't stop us.
Book bookkeeping is not their passion. Tan. No, no. They they have the same approach to bookkeeping as Jason Baitman had in
Ozark. Nice Ozark ref. One Democrat who's going through his own
Graham Platner's tattoo
renovation project. Main Senate candidate Graham Platner. How's that for a segue? That is perfect.
That's
pretty good. Did you just make that up on the spot? You know, I'm not
going to take credit for that one. I'll take credit for it when I do it,
but I'm not doing it. that
one to read. In our Tuesday episode, Tommy asked Platner about a tattoo on his chest of a toteen cop, which now we
all know the skull and crossbones image used by the Nazi SS. Platner said he
wasn't aware of what it meant when he got it in Croatia as a drunk 23-year-old Marine. On Wednesday, after a bit of
online chatter, uh Platner revealed that he got the tattoo covered up. He's also dealing with the fallout from his many
many Reddit posts including several homophobic slurs and jokes that were reported by the advocate which Platner
apologized for and said were indefensible in an interview with the outlet. Platner did speak to a packed
town hall in a gunkquit main this week and got some good news from a UNH poll that was in the field between October
16th and 21st. So after uh many of the Reddit posts came out but before the
Nazi tattoo story. Uh the poll shows that Maine Democrats favor Platner over
Governor Janet Mills by a whopping 58 to 24%. Mills's overall approval rating
with Mayners has also taken a dive since the last UNH poll in August. She's gone from a uh plus4 net approval to a
minus12 disapproval with only 35% of independents and 2% of Republicans approving. Alex, we've all talked quite
a
bit about this story. Some people probably think more than enough that
they that they never want to hear it again. What are your thoughts? What
are
your thoughts? I I I will say this about Graham Platter. I think if there's one uh
residual effect of the Trump administration or the Trump years, it is that politicians can own their mistakes
and they can be um I I think it is a good thing when people
in politics admit that they have aired and that they are human. And I'm not
saying that to excuse homophobia or potentially racist tattoos or or
anti-semitic tattoos or whatever. I I just think it is a good development if
people feel like they can they can own their past. They can apologize for it. they can let the voters decide whether
the apology is sufficient, but that we don't pretend that people have lived their lives from, you know, the day they
were born hoping to gain office and that they have had experiences and they've
made mistakes and they've lived lives because ultimately I think it serves us as a public to have people who have been
in the world and have learned things and have evolved. And I'm again not making excuses for Graham Platner, but I think
it is a good thing for us politically to not be so afraid of our pasts. So I
think the way he's approached the sort of scandal here by going out there and talking to people and talking to Tommy
and saying like this is, you know, I regret this. I did this, but this was me and it made me who I am today is like
that's a good thing. And I don't know that that kind of that kind of mayulpa would have happened before Trump where
it's like nothing you can do anything. Uh but no, I think that you can be honestly who you are and voters will
maybe try not they'll understand that and maybe it's not going to be a death nail for your campaign. So that part is
good. You know, I don't know. Dan and I kind of disagree on this. I don't know. I I think Janet I guess I think that I
understand the the the concerns about absolutely being kned by Chuck Schumer
and
chosen by the establishment to be the candidate and and why that is
distasteful and it is fundamentally anti-democratic. I also think that
there
is a real difference between someone who's been in the Senate for like six terms and someone who just happens to be
old, still wants to fight, has stood up to Donald Trump, said to him in the White House to his face, I'll see you in
court. Like that's a different kind of fighter than some of the aged albeit wonderful public servants we see in the
upper chamber. And I don't think we should, you know, I don't think it's necessarily fair to put her in the same
box as, for example, Dick Durban. Okay, not that he's a bad person. And like last but not least, I just am a
little bit with Jonathan Martin on this when it's like Democrats do get very enthralled
with anti-establishment outsiders who are very charismatic. And you know, I'm thinking of Betto Aor and his potty
mouth and you know, like I do worry a little bit that he's such he is he's good. He's a good, you know, like he's
got a lot to recommend him, but I I do worry about like whether this is actually someone who's going to win the
weirdass state of Maine. It's a weird state. A wonderful state. No disrespect,
Mers. Dan, before you go, I'm gonna I'm gonna just read you uh just a quote from
uh what Alex was just referencing, our friend Jonathan Martin's political column, and then I'm just going to let you cook. Uh
you
shouldn't do that. You should not do that. I'm going to Alex and I are
going to set a timer. We'll give you We may just leave.
You
have to play me. You have to play me off like the Oscars. We're just
leave. Just let him have the rest of the show. So JMart says the
Democrats need to stop quote swooning over quote political outsider or mostly new-name candidates who rely on online
video and lean quote heavily on compelling biography or powerful oratory which cause quote out ofstate liberal
hobbyists to fall in love and donate and for jouos to quote sorry to fall in love
and donate and for journalists to quote rush to profile the latest heartthrob before inevitable disappointment when
the candidate loses or well becomes John Federman. Obviously, a lot to respond to
there. Dan, we like Jonathan Martin. Yeah, we've known him for a very long time. I think he is a very astute observer of
politics. I don't understand a word he wrote in this piece. Okay.
Should we repeat it? Should we have John read it? Yeah. I mean, I understand the like I know I understand the syllables. I
understand
the individual words. I just don't understand the point, I guess, is
the way I'd say it. So, first, the idea that Democrats are constantly
falling in
love with these crazy outsider candidates who can't win elections is belied by the fact that our last three
nominees were Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and then Kla Harris, who may have
been
exciting or may not have been, but we didn't have a primary to find out
because she was handpicked and no one ran against her. And so, and in
many of
those races, there were exciting uh grassroots progressive candidates who ran and lost to Democrats did not pick
those people. So, that's one. Two, the examples that uh Jonathan and also now
Alex have cited, I dispute because Vetto AOR uh was an exciting candidate. He did
have a potty mouth. He also did better in Texas than any any Democrat in a couple of decades and came very close to
winning that race. And there is no I don't think anyone can credibly argument that there was some safe Texas
establishment figure who would have done better than better did in that race. The other one that Jonathan Martin uh cites
is Stacy Abrams. Exciting. Got lots of money from out of state. People were
really excited about her. Very inspiring candidate. She came closer to winning the Georgia governorship than any other
Democrat in a very long time. And because of the race she won, Democrats won the Senate seats of John Oaf and
Raphael Warick. And Biden won the state in 2020. And so it's not like once again we put all of our money and hopes in
this in this losing candidate when there was this winning candidate. Amy McGrath different story. She is someone who
raised a ton of money online because everyone wanted to beat Mitch McConnell. The I think in part because Senate
Democrats the SEC and Chuck Schumer perpetuated this fiction that McConnell was beatable in order to raise more
money
for the effort to elect Democrats across the country really kind of
built donors out of their money. But once again there was no other C. We
didn't
pick Amy McGrath over some other candidate who would have done a better job to win. In fact, two years later
when uh uh a few years later when Charles Booker ran against Ran Paul in
that
same seat in this very exciting progressive candidate, he did just as
well as she did if not a little bit better. And then the last thing I
would
say
and then al let's take the Federman thing. Everyone keeps saying this
thing like didn't you guys learn your lessons from Fedterman? as if
Federman was some
unknown person and everyone just fell in love with his hoodies and tattoos and shaved head. John Federman was the
two-term lieutenant governor of the state. He had been a very prominent mayor for almost a decade at that point.
He endor he was the mayor of Bradock who endorsed Barack Obama in 2008. He was not unknown by anyone. He was very
wellknown. Now he changed all of his positions after he got in his attitude once he got in office. But that is not
the
same that says nothing about Graham Platner or any of these other
candidates. Last point on this and I have one more thing to respond to
Alex
on and then I'll be done. I promise. The main thing that bothers me about Jar's piece, not Alex Jart's piece is that is
the entire and a lot of the actual anti-platiner discussion since the posts
and the tattoo came about is this idea that candidates who excite voters are doing some sort of parlor trick that
it's like they're just they're tricking people into liking them. And the attitude from the establishment and some
of the media folks is like, "You rubes, how did you fall for that trick again? You got all excited about this
candidate when you should have just taken the boring candidate we tried to shove down your throats instead of like
sometimes
the the grassroots will like a candidate who maybe isn't the best one.
And maybe Grant Platiner is not the best one. He may not be but
sometimes they
will
like a candidate who is the best one like I don't know Barack Obama
because that same attitude was what we heard every single day on that
campaign.
Oh,
look at Obama and his rallies and his celebrities, but what you really
got to do is support Hillary Clinton or John Edwards, one of these
other, you know,
long-term politicians. Don't do the newcomer. And when that when people instead of dismissing the candidates who
get
people excited and the voters who get excited by the candidates, the
establishment try to figure out why they're getting excited and maybe
learn
some of those lessons and apply them to their candidates. Maybe Janet, so last point here, I promise. Maybe Janet Mills
will be an exciting candidate. Like, she may be, we don't know. Um, maybe she is a better candidate than Graham Platner,
particularly
after all these revelations. I don't know the answer to that, right? I
do I do not know the answer to that and I don't think anyone
else does either. And I that's really been my main beef about everyone declaring that he's a worse candidate
than her. No one knows because there's a lot of arguments that would show that a
two-term establishment governor who is 77 and will be in her mid 80s at the end
of her first term and is the second least popular governor in America may not be the best candidate either. And so
we should just let the voters in Maine figure it out. Okay, I'm done. I'll stop now. It's funny that you mentioned uh Obama
there because you know there's people have been talking quite a bit online. people who have a lot of feelings about
everything
over this last week. There's a lot of people like are these guy what
are the pod guys working for platiner? What? And I'm like it is it's
less about
plat. I think our reaction is because of uh like what we experienced on the Obama
campaign. I almost call it obvious psychology. obvious like and I almost started laughing when I was reading Jart
the quotes from Jart's piece where it was like swooning over political outsider or mostly new name heavily on
compelling biography or powerful oratory like like all of that stuff was said about Barack Obama and it wasn't just
and now people will look back and people who you you think oh well Barack Obama left as you know he was he was perceived
as this establishment Democrat who you sort of united the party and all
different
factions liked him when he was when we were running against Hillary
Hillary Clinton. It was like this guy has no experience. His name is
pretty
foreign. Uh what has he ever done? He's a communist. Reverend Wright bills. Like
there was some people thought that he was like there's no way this guy can win and his tattoos
and his tattoos which we haven't which he got away with which and still no one knows about the uh
and
his homophobic uh the homophobic. Yeah. All the stuff he did on the
metric. So, it's just like, but it is just to say that I I I'm talking
to uh
Chris
Hayes, your colleague Chris Hayes for offline this weekend. And we were
just talking about Chris's piece in the New York Times about um
attention and
what's required to get attention in politics today. And his point was on the list of when you're recruiting a
Democratic candidate, what's most important right now? And for a long time, what's most important to the DSC,
to the DC, to the National Democratic Party is can you raise money? And then
like what is your resume? what is your bio? And like, do your politics fit with the state or the district that you're
running
in, right? And are you safe? And are you safe? Right? And then way down
on the list and sometimes sneered at is can you really connect with
voters? Are you uh like a compelling speaker? Do you know how to capture attention in a very competitive
attention uh environment right now? And like can you inspire people? And that is seen as like just it's like something
that warms people's hearts or I don't know like to take another 2007 example that sends the thrill up Chris Matthews
legs remember and it's like that is not why I care about someone who's a really
good speaker. I care about that because I think it actually helps them win and be competitive in a really tough race.
And I think that's even more true now in this information environment than it's ever been. And I just worry again,
Graham Platner aside, that like the party has not prioritized candidates
regardless of whether they're on the left, center left, wherever, who can really connect and inspire people. And I
just think that that is a I think that is I worry most about that than anything else. That's a real problem with the DSC. I
think is in like you can we can have the same argument about who the most electable candidate in Michigan is
between
Abdul, Nali McMurro, and Haley Stevens. Once again, I don't know the
answer to that question. I don't think anyone else does either. The DSC
thinks
they
know the answer. I think they think the answer is Haley Stevens. And
there is absolutely no question, whatever else you think about Haley
Stevens, that she is not as good a communicator as Abdul
and Mallerie who are excellent communicators and have theories of the case about how you get attention in this
day and age. She is a like very capable, very typical politician in how she communicates. And so, it's clearly not
the top of their list. I was like I just want to stipulate like what my actual position here is. I do. I just want to
say
this again because everyone's like the like everyone's pro platiner pro
planner. I have I have liked Glorian Platner. I've been impressed by
what
he's done. I truly have no idea if he's a better candidate than Janet Mills. I really do not. And whoever wins that
nomination, I will I obviously will support them. I will donate to them. All of that. I my big issue is that people
who assume that the outsider candidate is less electable than the insider candidate. I think do not fully have not
appreciated
the changes in American politics over the last 10 years. I'm definitely
not I just to be clear I don't write under the pseudony name
Jonathan Martin for political just in case anybody was like worried about that. Um I would say there's no chance you two
would be confused for each other. Well, you never know. It's a weird time in America. Um,
I would never argue that the outsider is doomed by any stretch of the imagination. And guys, I hear what I
understand that the Obama candidacy in 2008 was like, I know I was I've lived through it, too. And I understand that
it was um, you know, the the the the trepidation and the concern about his candidacy was very real, but I think
that this is something a little bit different, right? I I don't think it's the same as that. I think the guy does
have baggage. She's had to explain a lot early on and you know with constituencies that are important. I
think
as I said at the beginning I think he's done a a very admirable job of
that. To your point Dan about the establishment and how it is and
like that. What we've learned is also it doesn't actually matter what the establishment wants, right? Like Trump
wasn't who the establishment wanted. He was who the people wanted. So like on a certain level it's like congratulations
Chuck
Schumer for convincing a 77year-old to run for one term in the Senate.
Like that's a feat. But like whether your, you know, manipulation or
even whether the DSC funding matter, like yeah, money matters, but I I also feel like money will come. Like if
you're
an exciting candidate and people feel like you're going to win, I do
think like we are in a day and age where if you are in the culture, if
your
message
is resonating, if you are making an imprint on the election election
landscape, like you're going to get the money. And I do think you don't
necessarily have to have the framework of the establishment behind you to become the nominee. So, like I guess
it's in in that way I'm not as outraged by like Schumer's attempt to meddle in all of this because ultimately I'm not
sure
that it's actually that much of a thumb on the scale. Anyway, I could
be wrong. No, no, I don't I don't I don't think you're wrong. I think a
candidate like
Graham Platner who I mean he raised more money than uh in a similar period of time than Janet Mills did with the help
of Chuck Schumer. the you know it's a little bit different in Michigan where you have Haley Stevens showing up at DSC
finance retreats which Janice Mull will be able to either but I suspect if Grant if Grant Platiner survives this period
and continues to thrive in this race he will raise enough grassroots money in a state as small as Maine to compete
there's
no question about that what bothers me even more than just the it's not
just the intervention is what it says about their understanding of
politics and the lack of humility about what we know about electability in a postTrump era that bothers me because it
says something disturbing about how the people at the top actually have interpreted the 2024 results and how
they
see politics because they're just running the same play they've run
every year, every time as long as I've been around politics and things
have changed
a lot recently. The government's still shut down though. Sure is. That's and you know what and kudos to
them.
They've done they have done a very good job throughout the shutdown. By
the way, I'm not here to defend Chuck Schumer. Just also just not
So yeah, we have Alex the Schumer position and Dan loves the tattoo is what we are.
That is what I'm coming away with. And you were dealing with you're dealing with latent Obama era trauma.
Guys, there's a big couch for all of you. There's a big couch for all of you. Good stuff. Well, fortunately, we have
till June to keep talking. That's the best part. Dan's just going to stay here and talk
about this race till then. Uh, let's talk about some critical races that are actually happening soon as in a
Upcoming elections
week from Tuesday. I saw that in the I was like, a week from Tuesday? Are we that close? Oh, let's start with the
2025 faceoff. Everyone's talking about the Georgia Public Service Commission. I'm only partly kidding. If you live in
Georgia and you don't want to pay higher electricity bills, make sure to get out and vote. This is an important race. It
has a lot of ramifications in Georgia. Um, same for you all in Pennsylvania in the Supreme Court races there. Uh,
Republican mega donor Jeff Yas is trying to buy the state's high court. Do not let him go out and vote. Uh, same with
all you Californians in Prop 50. Vote yes on Prop 50. Had a couple people today. I had a couple people text me and
they're
like, "Is it yes? Is it no? I What's the good one? And I was like,
yeah, proposition. It's tough. The language is annoying. I get that.
It's
yes
on 50. Um, I got to get my ballot. I don't know where it is. It's
supposed to be at my house somewhere. Anyway, that's my problem.
Interesting. I I filled mine out today. I know. Well, I got the text. Where could John Favro's ballot be?
It's in Heather Honey's pocket right now. They send the California State of Secretary of State sends a very helpful
text
to your phone that's on the way. Says you can track your ballot. So, I
got all that. I just can't find it. Um, all right. If you don't live in
those
states,
but you have friends and family that do, just give them a reminder.
Someone in Georgia, Pennsylvania, here in California, send them to
votesamea.com. Uh, whatever you need to do. Meanwhile, in New York City, polling shows that Zoron Mandani is in good
shape against Andrew Cuomo, but who knows? Cuomo did land the coveted Eric Adams endorsement on Thursday after a
contentious final debate between Cuomo, Mamdani, and Curtis Lewis on Wednesday night. Both Mandani and Cuomo were out
there hammering away the next morning on the platforms where they connect best. Mamani on the hugely popular flagrant
podcast and Andrew Cuomo on an obscure local radio show. Let's listen to the two approaches.
I
also think this idea that like New Yorkers are going to flee because of
a 2% increase. It's like I've been everywhere else. You're not going
anywhere. Bill Aman's not going nowhere. He's going to be in the Hamptons all one place to write those tweets. That's
it. New York City. Exactly. every character you want. AC goes out in July.
You sweating writing tweets. There's no way. Spending more money against me than I would even tax him.
Everything is like a million. Like a million. I'm like, I don't even want that.
You're going above and beyond. Any given morning there's a crisis and people's lives are at stake. God
forbid another 9/11. Can you imagine Mandami in the seat
and I could he he'd be cheering?
Another problem. Well, that's lovely. Um, let's start with our New York City correspondent, Alex Wagner.
I hate New York City. Sorry, I just like barf to all I mean. Yeah, I'm ready.
Got a bunch of nimbies trying to prevent affordable housing from being built. Cool. I'm there. Mom Donnie is a like
generational talent. Amazing. No matter what happens, this guy's like, first of all, he to the to the discussion we're
having
earlier. Like it's just great. It's a shot in the arm for Democrats and
progressives to see someone who can so beautifully master
the culture and is like a great talker and who's, you know,
not just a great doctor, but has substantive new bold ideas, right? Yay. Yay. Yay. Check mark. Check mark. Check
mark. But New York isn't all like bros. It's not all. I mean, I do worry
that anecdotally there are some quiet Cuomo voters who are like in the in the
m I I'm just saying this because I think especially after the 2024 election like
Yeah. Uh I'll tell you later. Um I'm not saying that Cuomo is a shoein, but I
would not be surprised if the if the race is tighter than it appears to be right now. Uh there is, you know, New
York City is is a diverse city and it it is a city that is incredibly tough and there is still like there are people I
know
that admire mom Donnie and think he's amazing but are genuinely worried
about his ability to manage the bureaucracy and fight with Albany and
Cuomo is really was really good at denying New York City funding when he was the governor. But in the inverse
like Trump didn't never paid his taxes, but certainly like he knew how to game the system that way. So why not install
him as the head of the federal government in the same way like Cuomo will be able to, you know, again, I'm
not supporting a Cuomo candidacy. I'm just suggesting that I think that there are people in this city and they may not
be from, you know, the sort of very uh online audience that Mom Donnie is
speaking so convincingly to or even the college educated audience. But I do think that there is a subset of New
Yorkers who aren't maybe getting pulled or maybe not being as vocal that are gonna that that could find comfort in
Cuomo. And so I guess the only thing I would say in this moment is just like cautious optimism that Mom Donnie is
going to be uh the next mayor because I I think it might be a little bit tighter than than people suspect. That's all I'm
going to say. I I could be proven wrong and it could be a landslide and then everyone will laugh at me, but they're
going to do that no matter what. But if not, boy, do we have a clip.
I mean, he is he is like running through the tape here, I'm Donnie. He is not and he is he is doing as many interviews as
he can. He's he's he was he went pretty hard at Cuomo during the debate. He is not acting like someone who is 10 points
up. And I think that is a good way to run a race even if you are 10 points up or 15 points up to run like you're 10
points behind. I think that's always great. And um he's doing a lot of uh I feel like in these last couple weeks
sort of um easing the concerns of of the people that you might be talking about,
right?
Which is like I'm going to keep the police commissioner and I'm going
to like he's I Well, I think that that's a different I
almost
think that that's like the wealthier New Yorkers who have been
reluctant to give him money. Um you know, he's been tacking more towards
the
center center at least rhetorically in terms of not raising alarms around his socialist agenda and also issues like
Gaza and Israel. like there's he's definitely trying to play to a larger audience, but I think there's a more I
mean in the same way that we saw in New York, Trump gained in certain areas of the city, right? Blueco collar parts of the
city. Uh and I I don't know that mom anything mom Donnie is doing right now
is is something that's even across their radar. I think it's going to be as
simple as we remember. Cuomo can manage the city. We're going, you know, I mean, I think it's just kind of a basic
calculation based on name and recognition that is, you know, but I agree. Mandani is not acting like he's
10
points ahead. It's going to be interesting to see how Mandani does in
those precincts that shifted to Trump. Um, like do they just
vote for Republican? Is like was it really affordability and inflation and cost of living that drove them to
support Trump? And if that's the case now, maybe it's going to be apples to oranges comparison because the turnout
is
going to be so different. Um, but it's like that'll be something I'll
look at on election night. Next door in New Jersey, Congresswoman
Mikey Cheryl appears to be up about five points uh against former state rep uh Jack Chidarelli. Remind that in the uh
reminder that in the last cycle, Phil Murphy won by only three points, but the polls had him winning by more. And of
course, in 2024, the state swung 10 points to the right. In fact, Kla Harris won New Jersey with a smaller vote share
than Donald Trump got in Arizona. Uh Dan, has this race been more competitive than you expected?
No, I think it's about as competitive I expected. I mean, it was obviously been a shift in New Jersey that is as as
indicated by the 2021 results that it's not just a 2024
Biden border inflation bump. I think it's says something real has happened
there. And and this is what makes this race so much different than Virginia is
we we live in this state of perpetual change elections and Mikey Cheryl is replacing a two-term Democratic governor
and it's always hard to be three terms of the same party and you know she like there's been a lot of concern about her
candidacy among Democratic circles. There's been like 15 stories in Axios about panic about this race and part of
it is that she has made a couple of mistakes in interviews. one about her
she struggled to like name what her top priority would be. Another one where she was on the Breakfast Club and she failed
to respond accurately to a very unfair and very inaccurate attack about money
millions of dollars made stock trading. Um that had been like weaponized in ads that are very especially the one from
the Breakfast Club that's very reminiscent of the the infamous trans ad from 2024. So made people nervous, but
this
was always going to be a close race. It seems like it's a close race
and we have to hope the these polls are accurate. I guess
uh in Virginia, Abigail Spanberger is up about seven points, maybe more outside the margin of error, but again, who
knows? Virginia also has lieutenant governor and attorney general races that are very tight. The Democratic attorney
general candidate, Jay Jones, is tied with his opponent after a scandal over disturbing texts with a Republican
colleague from a few years ago where he endorsed political violence. He since apologized. National Republicans have
been all over this trying to get Spanberger to fully denounce him. Um, Alex, the delta between the governor and
lieutenant governor races and the AG race certainly suggests that these Joan texts could really matter. Um, what do
you think? I just I guess I can't get over it's just like yes, the texts were bad,
but like this is a week when Trump's nominee for the office office of special counsel uh Paul and Gracia admitted last
year that he had Nazi tendencies. It's just like to me the the the false
political
violence not something anybody should endorse except that the president
of the United States pardoned all the January 6 riers who were guilty
of
political violence. Like it's just very hard for me to even like uh accept that the like the scandal is as big as it is
in in Virginia and that the the National Republican Party is trying to make a big deal of this. Like it's so reprehensible
on so many levels given where their party actually is. But yeah, I mean I listen I I think Abigail Spanberger I've
I've
covered Abigail Spanberger since she was first running for the House.
She's an incredibly competent candidate. She get she absolutely gets it.
But
I tuned in when it when it first broke and I I do think that there are some first of all
it's like you're texting a Republican colleague and you are pretty you're
endorsing political violence and then you're like yeah maybe and they're like
they're
like you talking about the person's children and it's like yeah well
maybe sometimes bad things have to happen to someone to change their
mind.
I mean I was like that is some some psycho It's bad. No no it's definitely bad. I'm
not saying it's not bad. earlier point about Platner though like you know he he apologized I I I think he the apology
wasn't quite as it could have been better maybe but he apologized which is to your other point platner or Jones
Jones okay yeah cuz f first he was like this is a he like tried to blame the Republican and then then they had the mortex and
then he then the then the apology was more wholesome it was one of those things um but to your earlier point no
one's no one's apologizing on the Republican side they're just like exactly and it's we're nuts in the group
chat and it's Cool. It's just that's that's the world we
live in. Um, The Times had an interesting story about how a big part of the message uh for both Spanberger
and Cheryl is tying their opponents to Trump uh and how there's some unease in the strategist class about missing an
opportunity to present more to present a more positive vision. Dan, what do you think? Is this something you worry about
or is this just a just a story? I have a meta concern that the party is
continuing to run the same playbook since 2017 which is which is anti-Trump anti-Trump anti-Trump and presuming the
constitution still stands and I'd like to believe that it does we are done running against Trump so in the like we
need a message about Republicans because if you look at and this says something both both about Republicans and
Democrats but if you look at Trump's approval rating on all the key issues inflation immigration crime healthcare
etc it's all underwater but then when you ask them who They trust more generic Republicans or generic Democrats on
almost
all but our core issues like healthcare and climate change. They trust
Republicans more than Democrats. And that's in part because Trump has
operated
separate from the party in a lot of that's been to his great political
advantage because we it's made it hard to tag him with a lot of the,
you
know, very fair attacks we've done Republicans over the years about
like cutting social security, Medicare and abortion and things like
that. But now
it's
helping the Republicans because it's insulating them from some of his
worst transgressions. Now, having said all of that, I think in a
off-year
election where you're trying to generate turnout among a depressed Democratic base, I think this is a totally fine and
probably
good and effective strategy. I mean, they're like they didn't just pick
this off a, you know, off the board. They've have tested it and that's
clearly the most effective. Um, so I understand what they're doing here, but I think we have a broader conversation
as
a party that we should have on this podcast on a different day without a
thousand pieces of news, which maybe will maybe happen one day. um
about the
the right approach, how to balance anti-Trump versus anti-Republican and positive Democratic messaging.
Alex,
what do you think? I think we have to silo Dan's thoughts about Maine
if we want to be able to get to the substantive conversation.
Okay. Well, June 3rd, 2026, we will do this. Is that the day after? I think that's the day after the primary.
Oh, the primary is on my birthday. Is it? Well, maybe I maybe I have. Oh, man. Talk about your Obama trauma coming
to roost. Oh my god. It's the psychology is just at the surface, guys. Yes.
I don't know. It's hard for me to get. I don't I mean I hated that story actually. I I was just like a barf.
I don't want to like I don't like I don't care. Like just Yeah, I guess if
that's what's going to work. It's just he's doing so many bad things and you can argue that every Democrat in the
country is actually a bull work against I mean every elected Democrat is a bull work against Trump and what he's doing
is affecting people at the local and state level. So why not make it national? I I don't I truly don't know.
Um I don't ha like I I just I completely agree with Dan that the party has to
figure out what it stands for and what issues issues it's going to own. I think part of the problem and I've said this
before, I'll say it again, is the Democratic party is the pro-democracy party. It is a big tent and
right now it's largely a leaderless tent. There's just no person, there's no figurehead that can actually coalesce
everybody
into having that family conversation. And so I think it's going to be a
while. It might have to wait till after your birthday, John.
Unbelievable. I I I think if you are a running for governor, obviously it's
it's good to run on a positive vision because presumably you can do things as
governor. Um I think that most people when they vote in the midterms are going to be like what you just said, which is
Trump's doing a whole bunch of bad things. Um Democrats can't really promise to do a whole bunch, right? They
can they have subpoena they'll have subpoena power, right? They can stop any other Trump legislation. They can't do
much more beyond that. So, you might not you might you might as well not overpromise anyway. And I think most
people who are going to vote in the midterms are thinking, okay, this is a check on Trump and the Republicans or
it's
not or or we like what they're doing, right? So, I I think that that
that's a different situation. I think once you start looking towards
2028,
yes, of course, um we need to have a conversation about what we're for and inspire people to actually come vote for
something and not just against something. It's a very it's a conundrum because you can't be a check be seen as
a viable check on power if you are not seen as standing for something and being strong. So you're probably going to have
to do the difference between a tiny slim barely eek it out democratic majority
and a blue wave is a significant improvement in the brand. People have to believe people even people who don't
love Democrats have to believe that we are a credible strong realistic check on
Trump's
power and they don't believe that right now. C can I just say I know
we're like they did shut down the government which remains shut down.
I'm not saying I'm not even saying it's a fair No, I I'm just putting it out there that they are standing firm on the issue of
healthcare and it it is like an important issue. It is resonant with the American public and that is maybe the
beginning
of the party trying to find its legs on an issue that really matters.
Finally, we have to take a minute to discuss the most uh bizarre moment
so
far in the 2025 elections which is saying a lot. Uh Tuesday night's debate between Virginia Lieutenant Governor
candidate John Reid and Democrat Gazalah Hashmi on Tuesday night. It was a standard political debate with one major
twist. Here's a clip from an ad that Reed released right after. John Reed showed up for a debate.
Gazalah Hashmi didn't. So Jon debated her AI clone instead because even a
robot version of Gazala has more cander and courage than the real one. Um yes. Yes. The entire debate was
between John Reed and an AI version of Gazala Hashmi.
It included fact checks. It included sources. It incl he he even asked himself. He had the AI moderator ask
himself some tough questions. Stop this train. I want to get off. Like I just feel like we'll look back in like
2032 and be like, remember when that was novel? Or maybe we'll look back at it like we look back on uh the hologram of Jessica
Yellen in the situation room. Maybe. I do miss those holidays.
Or John Edwards uh campaigning in Second Life. Oh my god. I don't even know. I don't even remember
that. I don't either. The the real ones will remember. Tommy will probably know this is this is post Tommy, but I'm sure
he'll remember us. That was insane. I mean, it does raise the question, should we just have AI as governing the
country? Like is we're headed We're headed. Yeah. the the ballroom's going to
transition into an AI data center and all the CEOs are going to be there that tried to paid for it and they're just
going to and then they they're just going to sort of whatever they do program the AI to just run the country
and
kill us all. I don't know. I'm like Trump talking about AI. It's like
who are they talking about the AI? That's a big thing. Everyone's
talking
about the AI. You don't understand Bitcoin. Anyway, we're Uh, but get out there and tell your friends to vote.
Vote America.com because the comeback we're not till it's over.
The comeback starts till we're A week from Tuesday, that's when that's when the comeback starts. We're going to
get out there and get some votes out. Uh, and go subscribe to Runaway Country. Um,
yes. And when we come back, you'll hear Tommy's conversation with Denise Veriozi from the Pipeline Fund. Before we get to
that, Crooked Con two weeks from today. Uh, as you may have heard, there are a ton of new speakers added to the
November 7th lineup. Lena Khan, Adam Mockler, Tim Miller, Permila Gyipol, Jen Saki, Simone Sanders Townsend. Uh, we
just posted the full Crooked Con schedule. If you're joining us in DC on November 7th, head to crookedcon.com to
start
planning your day at CrookedCon. And if you haven't made up your mind
about coming, now is your chance. The three of us are all hosting
panels.
Mine's on uh Democratic messaging. Dan's is about Graham Platner.
Dan is about what the D is about polling. So there you go. You get all the polling stuff. Alex's is about what
Democrats would do with the majority uh if we win it back next year. It's featuring three AI versions of
Janet Mills. What about Chuck Schumer? Chuck Schumer. No, it's actually going to be Alyssa
Slock and Brian Shots and Permila Jipal. Great panel. The names are Mills or Schumer
or
Flatter. That's a great panel. There are limited tickets left. Make
sure to take a look at the full schedule at crookedcon.com and be sure
to grab
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America is brought to you by Article. We love Article furniture here at
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$50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. My guest today is the head of the pipeline fund, an organization that
Denise Feriozzi interview
recruits, trains, and supports the next generation of leaders in the Democratic Party. Uh Denise Feroszi, welcome to
Pave
America. Thanks for having me. It's so great to be here. It's great to
uh to finally meet you. I've heard a lot about you and the great
work
you guys are doing. So for for listeners who have not heard of the
pipeline fund before, can you just explain what you guys do and how it
came
to be? Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So um you know the pipeline fund, I think probably
those of us who have worked in politics for any number of years have long lamented the lack of a bench in the
Democratic party. I know since I've been doing this work, it's something I've heard over and over. Um so really this
beca it was an idea kind of after the 2016 elections when we saw a huge number
of folks I think for the first time um in a long time looking at running for
office as like a real outlet for change and like wanting to figure out how to do that. And there were all these new
groups um popping up you know like run for something and other organizations.
And so we started asking the question like how can we use this moment to finally work on building a real bench
like how can we make sure that this kind of 2018 cycle is not a flash in the pan but something that we can continue. Um
and so that's how the pipeline fund came to be. We basically looked around and said gosh we have now we have this
enthusiasm for running. We have all these great organizations, right? Young people are being recruited and supported
by Run for Something and Women by Emily's List and Emerge. And you know, there's a long list of groups that do
this kind of work. And it's not just national groups, it's groups in the states as well. And so we thought, well,
what really is missing is how do we actually connect all of that work strategically to make sure that we're
getting as many great leaders running in as many districts as possible. this
cycle and beyond. And so that's what we do. We kind of serve as a space to make sure that, you know, the national groups
are
working with groups on the ground in key states to make sure we're
recruiting great leaders from their communities into the most important
places in this
moment. Um, and just essentially make sure all that work is scaled
strategically so that we have a bench for now and in the future. And you guys are focused on creating um
individual state-based organizations, right? Why is that? Yeah, that's a great question. Um, you know, we are we really
believe that um in order to get someone to run for office, right, which let's be honest, it's not 2017 2018, it's a
different environment, right? And it can be really challenging in a what was a normal environment to run for office.
But you just add the elements that we're seeing today with, you know, um political violence, safety, not to
mention like time. People have to have jobs and then they run for office, which can be a full-time job in itself. Um, so
we really think that folks on the ground need to be there to work with people to identify them, to convince them that
they can and should run for office to help them plan for that and then to be
there right when they do run to help them, you know, find staff and navigate the complexities of a campaign and then
also when you become a first-time elected official, kind of support them in that new role cuz it's really
different from campaigning. I don't need to tell you that. Um, so we really think that the way to make sure that we have a
bench for the future is to have folks on the ground who are doing this work year in and year out like we are recruiting
now for 26 and frankly for 28 too. Um, and um, and then to be a center of
gravity so that they can once they've got a great person on the line call those national groups and say, "Hey,
Emily's List, we really need your help. we've got a great woman, but she needs a finance director or she needs to be
trained. And so that's kind of the way that we're going to do this. Make it sustainable. Make sure that we're being
really smart because recruiting someone in Texas is different than recruiting someone in Wisconsin where I live. Um,
and
the folks on the ground know those distinctions, right? Yeah. Well, I
know and that was actually exactly what I want to ask you. Like in
a state like California where I am or in Wisconsin where you are, there are tons of uh Democrats who are elected
officials in the state that you can lean on. There's local parties. There's basic infrastructure. You with Wisconsin's got
a famously excellent uh Democratic party. Um but there are red states out
there that are just kind of barren for the Democratic party. like there's no infrastructure, there's no muscle
memory, there's no institutional knowledge or you know people who can help you like identify the person in the
community
in Nebraska that is a big progressive that would like to run but maybe
hasn't gotten that push. How do you build a pipeline in uh a deep red
state to both source those candidates and then also kind of steer them to run in their right races and then support
them as they go? Yeah, it's a great question and honestly one that we're like navigating right now because we are
on the ground in 14 states, but we are actually working with um you know stakeholders and folks on the ground in
another 21 states to build kind of pipeline organizations that do this year
round work and you can imagine you don't get to that number of states without working in really kind of deep red
states. You mentioned Nebraska where we are working with folks to start a new organization. Um and it's really
interesting in these states where there's just not a lot of infrastructure and there hasn't been investment. Um
folks on the ground know like the way to start that is actually by starting with developing leaders, right? We need
people to run campaigns. We need people to consider running for office. Um, and
we need to help build like the leadership of of operatives across the state. And so, you know, that's that's
honestly where I think a lot of folks are starting right now as we recognize we can't just play in a set of, you
know, 8 to 10 swing states. We've got to think bigger. Um, and we are working
with people in those red states to say, okay, where do we want to start? What
are the unique dynamics of your state? You may not be in spitting distance of of flipping a state legislature, but we
can work on really key county seats and school boards, which are everywhere, and kind of show what it looks like to have
good leaders um who are not these kind of right-wing extremists governing um as
a
way to build. So, that's what we're doing right now, and it's it's
actually really exciting. Yeah. I mean, well, c can you tell us a
success story? Like, is there an individual or a state where things are going really well that kind of tells
that broader story? Oh my gosh, there's so many. I'm I you know, I have to say
it's hard to pick, right? It's like your kids. You can't say which one is your favorite, but let me try. Um I'll give
you one. Um a a new state that we're working in that I think is probably top of mind for everyone at this time in the
cycle. Um you know, Virginia is a place, right, every off year we're all talking
about Virginia because of their state ledge and and governor's race. um you
know, they also have a you know, a strong party and and great folks on the ground, but we did um start a new group
there because they recognized that there needed to be more state and local infrastructure. And so we helped launch
a group called Build the Bench in January of this year and they worked with partners um across the ecosystem to
recruit um candidates to run in all 100 House of Delegate seats. Um, and these
are amazing candidates. Like there are there are majority women. There are lots
of women in color, but there's also like farmers, small business owners,
teachers. And so we're really excited about what that looks like when you are kind of running, you know, in different
places across the common, you know, across the Commonwealth. So that's one, but Virginia, everybody knows. The other
one that I always like to highlight because people don't think of it as a success story typically on our side of
the aisle and that's Florida. Um we work with an awesome organization called the Florida Pipeline Project. And back in
2022 they launched this schoolboard protection project to fight back against Moms for Liberty and also Governor
Dantis who has been super engaged in these local schoolboard races. And it took a while. They got folks to run, but
in 2024, um, we had 80% of their candidates win their races and at the
schoolboard level. That's remarkable. Um, it's wild and no one knows about it, right? So, I think that's the thing.
It's about finding these places where you can have local success and where those implications are real for people
on the ground. And it's just a great example of where boy, you you you peel off a fraction of the money that gets
dumped into TV ads in the last two weeks of an election to do this long-term organizing and you have this massive
impact. Yeah. I mean, like if for no other reason, I like to tell folks it's a
cheap date, right? I mean, you can put a little bit of money and have a huge impact. I mean, the investment that we
helped make with Partners on the Ground in Florida to win all those races was a million dollars. Like that's, you know,
and I know for for regular people that's a lot of money. For politics where we spend billions of dollars on federal
races,
it's nothing. Yeah. Know the Georgia Senate race is going to be half a
billion dollar race. Like a million dollars in Florida gets
you nothing. Right. Right. Statewide and even in a congressional. Um so, you know, I mean,
I think that's the like that's the big message here is like we as a party, we
have to stop only focusing on these big federal races. Now, I am never going to
try to convince someone to not focus on winning back the house in 2026. We have
to do that. And we also, if we moved a small fraction of the money that is
spent on those races down to the state and local level, we could literally win
tens of thousands of races in 2026. And that's not only now, but that's for like
the
future of who's running for Congress in a couple years. Uh our friends
over at Vote Save America have been running this pilot program where
we've been
telling our audience that lives in Arizona, North Carolina, and Texas in particular to uh go to uh votes of
america.com/run if you want to sign up to run for office in those states. And we have I think
2500 people have already signed up and taken that initial step. Now some of those people will wash out and they'll
learn more and they'll decide this is not for me. But that's still a lot of people. 700 of them are from Texas.
We've got people in, you know, towns as small as 4,000 people uh deciding to
run. The average age is 38. Um which is pretty exciting when you think about kind of the gerontocracy challenges the
Democratic party um has been facing recently. And the most remarkable thing um I learned from our team over at Vote
Save America was that 70% of the people that have signed up to run for office
have never done anything with Votes Save America before. I sort of thought you would see this ladder of engagement
that's like I'm text banking, I'm phone banking, I'm knocking on doors, now I'm running. 70% were just like, you know
what, I'm taking the plunge. Now is the moment for me. Which speaks to the power of asking and then having some
infrastructure
to support those people because it's one thing to say run for office,
you can do it. But if you just kind of jump in with no one there to
help you, it just it's unlikely to go as well. Yeah. No, I mean we are so excited about
this. And I also think we're really excited to partner with Votes Save America on this like state-based
approach, right? I think there are a lot of efforts that have been launched that are just kind of more broad national
efforts and those are great and I I am a wholehearted supporter of that, but it's really hard to do this state work and I
give you all a lot of credit for trying it with us and it's working. It's really exciting. you know, those people that
you mentioned in Texas, our partners on the ground um at Annie's List are literally like they have organizers like
just calling through and talking to these people one-on-one about what they
care about, how that matches up with a potential office that's available or a good opportunity in their area. And then
like really kind of talking through what that looks like and what it means. um sending them to trainings, connecting
with our national partners at NDTC and Run for Something for additional resources. It's really exciting, you
know, and I think in this moment, it's it's also really exciting to people see people stepping up in this way.
Yeah.
I mean, like in 2017 when you're talking about kind of founding the the
pipeline fund, I mean, there was all this energy, there was all these
organizations
sprouting up, there were random podcasts sprouting up, you know, like
there felt like a moment when we all felt like engaged and inspired. and
that's been missing a bit at least in terms of the protests or the visible efforts. So, it's great to know that all
this
work is happening behind the scenes. Again, votesafeamea.com/run if you
want to get involved in the the filing deadlines for North Carolina in
Texas or in December. So, uh sooner rather than later, is there a Republican version of uh of you guys that's out
organizing
us? Like what's the competition like on the other side? What's the
process as far as you know? Yeah. No, we did a lot of research
actually on this when we first started to say like what are we up against and it's really different. The truth is they
have a lot fewer much larger and better funded organizations. So you think about
you know the like KO network but really there's this group called the leadership institute. Um, of course there's, you
know, Turning Point, there's all of these organizations, but there are, I mean, I would say compared to our dozens
of organizations, there's like four or five leading ones, and they're all like funded to the tune of like, you know, 25
to 50 million a year, whereas our side is, you know, we're lucky on our side
for these national groups to have $10 million a year. And so I think the other
really big difference is they've just been doing this for a really long time. Like they haven't just discovered this
work. They've been really committed to state and local work for a long time and
they don't they they they continue to do it every cycle regardless of who's in the White House, who's in control of the
Senate. And so I think you know we are up against um you know a side that is
playing
the long game and we know that. We've seen that. That's not just about
pipeline and leadership development and state and local offices. It's
what they
do. I mean, so I think it's incumbent on us to really think about how we can play
the long game and not, you know, give up on and really like start to focus a little bit more of our resources and
time on these state and local offices. Final question for you. I mean, how can people listening get in touch with you
guys
if they're thinking about running, if this sounds exciting to them, or
if they just want to support the organization in some other way? Like,
can they donate? What's the process? Yeah, absolutely. Look, we are uh we are at pipeline.fund.
You can go there. You can donate if you are willing. And again, a little goes a long way um when it comes to these state
and local offices. I mean, schoolboard races can be won by like, you know, five votes and for $20,000. So, um definitely
donating.
And if you're interested in running, go to our website, look at our
state map. we can connect you to national and state partners um who can
help you um every step of the way. And we need more folks because guess what? There are I think it's almost 100,000
offices on the ballot in 2026 alone. Jesus. Yeah, that's a lot of races. Yeah. And
we will not win any of them if we don't run candidates. So, uh that is the key. Uh Denise, thank you so much for the
work
you're doing. Thanks for joining the show. It was great talking to you.
Thank you. Thanks for having me. That's our show for today. Thanks to
Denise
Ferios for coming on and thanks to Alex for being with us. Everyone,
make sure you subscribe to Runaway Country wherever you get your
podcast.
Tommy Love it and I will be back with a new show on Tuesday.
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