Saturday, October 25, 2025

Wolff: What I’m Going to Ask Melania Under Oath | Inside Trump's Head

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Wolff: What I’m Going to Ask Melania Under Oath | Inside Trump's Head

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355,609 views Premiered Oct 23, 2025 Inside Trump's Head
Buy tickets for our first Inside Trump's Head live event here: https://www.mcny.org/event/after-elec... Michael Wolff joins Joanna Coles to tackle his startling new announcement: a billion-dollar countersuit against Melania Trump. The two dissect Jeffrey Epstein’s well-documented friendship with Donald Trump and connect the dots to Trump’s East Wing demolition, showcasing the president’s strategy for destruction. Wolff and Coles also unpack Stephen Miller’s hardline crusades, exposing the strange psychology that drives one of Trump’s most maniacal members of his inner circle. As the legal walls close in, one question lingers: how much of Trump’s chaos is calculation, and how much is pure compulsion? 00:00 - Introduction 01:55 - Why Wolff Announced Melania Countersuit Beside The American Flag 04:21 - Wolff's Legal Action Against Melania Is An Anti-Slapp Suit 07:25 - First Time In History First Lady Has Sued A Member Of The Press 10:20 - Trump White House Demolition An Unscrupulous NYC Real Estate Strategy 16:43 - What Wolff Will Seek From Melania And Donald During Legal Discovery 19:23 - How Will Melania And Donald Perform During Depositions? 20:21 - Ghislaine Maxwell's Deposition Will Be Crucial In Melania Trial 21:04 - Wolff To Share Jeffrey Epstein's Comments About Trump During Melania Trial 24:30 - Inside Trump's Head Live Event Nov. 5, Buy Tickets At MCNY.org 25:30 - Why Trump Calls Stephen Miller "Weird Stephen" 28:48 - Stephen Miller Driven My Maniacal Anti-Immigrant Ideology 30:57 - Trump Has Used Stephen Miller As Cudgel 32:35 - Stephen Miller Gets Pleasure From Violent ICE Raids 34:40 - Trump Attempting To Undo Large Progressive Cultural Movements 35:54 - Stephen Miller's Lack Of Opportunities After Jan. 6th 39:08 - Trump Is Confused By Stephen Miller 41:10 - Viewer Questions Asked And Answered 43:11 - Click 'Join' Link Below, Get Perks Of Daily Beast YouTube Membership Buy tickets for our first Inside Trump's Head live event here: https://www.mcny.org/event/after-elec... šŸ‘‚ Podcast: Inside Trump's Head šŸ“ŗ Episode: 25 šŸŽ§ Format: Full Podcast šŸ“… Date: October 23, 2025 šŸŽ™️ Hosts: Joanna Coles, Michael Wolff #trump #melaniatrump #news Click here to become an official member of the Daily Beast's YouTube community:    / @thedailybeast   Have a question or comment for us? Send us an email: beastpod@thedailybeast.com Subscribe to Inside Trump's Head wherever you get your podcasts: https://pod.link/1767675909 Subscribe to The Last Laugh wherever you get your podcasts: https://pod.link/1456474041 Subscribe to The Daily Beast Podcast wherever you get your podcasts: https://pod.link/1508202790 The Daily Beast is committed to accurate, fair, independent, fast, and accountable journalism. We seek the truth and report it honestly, without fear or favor. We ground robust and provocative opinions in fact. Subscribe on YouTube:    / @thedailybeast   Follow us on Instagram:   / thedailybeast   Share this video on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thedailybeas... Share this video on X:   / thedailybeast   Share this video on Facebook:   / thedailybeast  
26 episodes
Inside Trump's Head
The Daily Beast

Follow along using the transcript.

The other night. Night before last, my lawyers went into court and sued the first lady.
So it is now Michael Wolff versus Melania Trump. I think the first is, is is just to subpoena
whoever might seem to be able to shed light on the relationship of Donald Trump and Melania Trump to Jeffrey Epstein.
And I think we'll be we'll be looking to subpoena various Epstein documents in that, that that is another back door
to begin to see materials from the so-called Epstein files.
Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein were the closest of friends for nearly 15 years.
Many of the conversations I had with Jeffrey Epstein were were precisely
about this, of Epstein talking about the the real closeness,
the intimacy of their relationship involved in every aspect of each other's
lives, social lives, sexual lives, business lives in the Epstein and said we we were the same person.
I know the secrets. And again, to remind everyone of the first thing
Steve Bannon said, putting out his hand, and shaking Jeffrey Epstein's hand was
you were the only person I was afraid of during the campaign, the 2016 campaign.
Jeffrey Epstein knows the secrets. I think this lawsuit is an opportunity
to reconstruct their lives together. Donald Trump, Jeffrey Epstein and then later, Melania Trump would come along.
This is precisely what Donald Trump wants covered up. So,
bring it on. So, Michael, you had some big news this week,
which you announced on your Instagram, Michael Wolf, NYC, standing on the porch of your lovely 17th
century Hamptons home with the Stars and Stripes. 1829 1829 all right.
With stars and stripes flapping behind you. Can you tell people who aren't following you on Michael Wolf nyc.com?
And they certainly should be. What you were actually announcing. And just to just let me say before, before, before that we're flying the flag
because we can and we should and, but also just to, just to reclaim it,
Trump has sent out to take that flag away, and he can't. Well, I think he set out to take it away from half of America, right?
He has taken it for his own use. His it has become his own stage prop, and he can't do that. So
it's our flag. Is the American flag flapping inside Trump's head? I think the stage set is inside Trump's head, and I've actually seen him
walk on to the stage, and he's very conscious of of how many flags, and
how many flags is not enough and how many flags is too much. I mean, it is all a it is all stagecraft, which he is very good at, in which
the American flag turns out to be very, a very useful supporting player. So,
so we fly it on our porch, too. Okay. You're now making me think I should get an American flag for my deck.
We should. All of everybody listening to this should reclaim the Stars and Stripes. It's a beautiful flag. And,
you're you're going to start selling a lot of flags. Michael, you might, I'm surprised that Trump hasn't got a special Trump
flag, actually, which has got a gold that there's got to be some gold in there. Maybe one of the stars becomes gold, or maybe he maybe he adds an extra star.
A gold star for Trump. I'm ha horrified to say that from your mouth to Trump's ears,
that might well be the case.
Michael. Joanna. We had promised people that we would talk about
Stephen Miller today and devote our entire episode to it. In fact, we have been superseded by events.
We are going to talk about Stephen Miller, towards the end of today's podcast. And then we're going to devote all being, well, events permitting,
podcast on Saturday to more Stephen Miller, because I know how many of you are interested in him,
and he's such an intriguing, weird character. But Michael, don't why don't you tell us what you've been doing?
I suppose we're in lieu of talking about Stephen Miller. We're going to have to talk about me.
So, which I have mixed feelings about you. You've become the story. I'm not the only one who has faced these kinds of lawsuits.
This has just become their trick in the book. We don't want this discussion to go on.
How do we stop it? We threaten people with with lawsuits for billions of dollars.
So instead of of, wilting instead of
of acquiescing the other night, night before last, my lawyers went into court and sued the first lady.
So it is now, Michael Wolff versus Melania Trump.
And, what we are suing for in, in New York State, there are a set of laws.
They're called anti-SLAPP laws because this is what's called is hers is the threat of a slap lawsuit
suing me for defamation on, in a situation where there is patently no defamation,
but suing so that I will shut up.
So instead, in a, turning of the tables, a jujitsu move, about what?
Someone in the white House said to me this morning. Well, no one saw that coming.
We have sued the first lady, and, and we will.
And the the importance of that is that it gives me subpoena power.
I can subpoena the first lady. The president of the her husband, the president and anyone else
who might shed light on the relationship of Donald Trump and Melania Trump to Jeffrey Epstein.
In other words, this might be a way to actually
get to the bottom of this story, to open the curtain, the dark curtain and,
we'll see how they feel about that. Epstein. Epstein, Epstein. So, Michael, what has the reaction been?
I know this is the first time I think a first lady has ever,
faced herself, with being sued. Well, there's a series of firsts here, which I think
it's important to acknowledge. This is also the first time that,
that a first lady or a president has actually reached out
to sue people in the press for, for defamation.
That's never happened before. Not not least of all because on the according
to the law, a president and the first lady really cannot be defamed. They're they're just they're they're public figures.
They they've put themselves out there, in the land of free speech. We ought to be able to say literally anything about them.
So that's that's new and that's effective on their part. It's been incredibly effective.
They sue the media, and the media goes quiet.
In. So this is, again, apparently deeply unexpected to them, this turn of events, me suing them.
And the response has been, I think nothing less than, the incredible,
an outpouring of support, on my I made a short Instagram, video about this,
constant incoming. Now. So. And I think people suddenly say, you know, oh,
my God, you know, this this somebody has got to do it. I in a sense, I would have preferred it would be someone else other than me.
But just because it's this is expensive and it's time consuming. Comes the moment comes the
the man who is surprised by the moment, which would be me. And I'm going to refer people to your Instagram, Michael Wolff, and see
where there is all sorts of conversation about about what happens next.
In theory, how fast can you start deposing the First lady and the president?
This is all new territory for me. So I'm I'm not I'm not certain.
And they will obviously put up roadblocks. So this is going to have to be this is a needle to be thread.
And, and let me just say also, this is going to be an expensive needle and I'm going to have to reach out.
And we're starting to go fund me and and and and all that and looking for support here.
And the support is partly partly from for for me and what I'm going to have to shell out on this.
But it is also it is also to provide the wherewithal, to haul these people into court.
They can't do this. This is dare I say, America?
Well, it was it was America. And, you know, once only
got to look at the remarkable speeds with which the east wing is being demolished, to see that this is not the America we knew.
Donald Trump has put his own people in over, what would normally be
the commission that would slow any process like this down, make sure they were hitting every historical mark.
So nothing of import was destroyed. He said the building was going to be adjacent to the east wing.
He said at one point in July nothing was going to be destroyed and in fact they've taken bulldozers and jackhammers to the east wing,
and now they've hastily erected a fence so nobody can see what's actually going on.
But it seems such a matter for and in fact, several people have commented on YouTube this morning and said, in fact, Kyle
Roth home says, I wonder if no King's Day would have been much larger if this demolition had been more visible before this latest March.
What do you think? I just want to say one thing that that that Trump in the white House says all the time to people whenever, whenever, people say,
and that's going to be a problem and maybe we shouldn't go that far. And, you know, we can't really do that.
What he always says is we have the power. We should use it.
Which is a kind of a terrifying thing, if you think about that.
You know, and it turns out. Yes, if you're the president of the United of, of the United States,
you do have the power and you can use it, but you're not supposed to. So this idea that you're not supposed to do this
is, is is kind of, you know, a tenant of American democracy, and that has been falling.
You're not supposed to tear down the white House. I mean, yeah, I mean, can it be more more obvious than that?
You're not supposed to do it. The people's house, right? The people's House and also Congress is supposed to stop you doing this,
or at least put the brakes on until every eye has been dotted and everything has been crossed.
And we're in a remarkable time where it seems the only people that are working are the demolition,
people on the West Wing. And meanwhile, we're still in a shutdown.
I think it's day 23. We're recording this. There is that. But I think that the broader the broader point here is that
Trump is looking for ways to two marshal this power that he has,
which again, that we might have we might have been aware that the presidency has enormous powers,
but that there was a, a built in mechanism not only for, for other,
other branches of government and other agencies and, and other people of conscience to restrain this power.
But but that, we're we're in this totally unexpected moment in which the president,
United States is a not only intent on using it, but willing willing in, in ways
that no one ever imagined again to tear down the white House.
And let's let's be very, very clear about that. And I think one of the things that people are responding to
is the pictures of the of that it makes all the difference in a story.
And in our business, we know this when there are pictures, you get to literally see this.
I mean, the there there are no pictures of of Trump on a daily basis tearing down democracy.
But there are now, literal pictures of the wrecking ball taken to the white House.
Well, the interesting thing is that Donald Trump is obviously an experienced construction, person.
He's been doing it all his life. And normally the first thing construction crews do
is to build a fence around the area that they,
deconstructing or demolishing. So that, you know, people don't see it because it's often very unsightly here.
They didn't bother to do that. The pictures came out. People were clearly very disturbed by them.
And in fact, the fences only went up earlier this week. I'm wondering if that was a deliberate thing, that they wanted people to see it.
Understand that Donald Trump is unafraid to wield power, even in the form of a jackhammer and a bulldozer.
Or if it was just a mistake, I'm told that people who had access to the scene were told they were not allowed to share photographs of it,
or any kind of video. But do you think he deliberately, allowed people to
see what was going on to flex his power? Or do you think it was just an oversight? There's another aspect of when you're in the real estate and construction business,
and you want to demolish something, especially in New York.
It is important to you want to demolish before you're allowed to demolish
or before the, the entire approval process is, is is going through.
Once you've demolished, it's demolished. That's the that's you've changed the facts on the ground.
So and and and builders in New York do this all, all of the time. You do not want to give the opportunity to all of the various groups
and commissions, and citizens who might go to court and try to stop you.
So you want the wrecking ball to get in there first. And I have a sneaking suspicion that's what happened.
That's partly what happened here. There's no going back now. He has. He has demolished it.
There's no going back. You can't restore it. He has demolished it. And of course, yet again, a metaphor that this is where Melania Trump,
the first lady, would normally have her office. Except for the most part, she is nowhere to be seen around the white House.
So. So, Michael, you're taking a book out of Trump's adviser Roy
Cohn by always going on the attack here and suing the first lady. What are the first kind of documents you're going to be looking for,
for them to produce? Or what kind of evidence are you expecting to find? I think the first is, is just to subpoena
whoever might seem to be able to shed light on the relationship of Donald Trump and Melania Trump to Jeffrey Epstein.
And I think we'll be we'll be looking to subpoena various Epstein documents
and that, that that is another backdoor to getting, the to opening, to being able to to,
to begin to see materials from the so-called Epstein files.
But but mostly, you know, I think it's going to be interesting. Donald Trump and, you know, you know, I mean, this is an important
and important point, which I think it's it's I've made before. But to keep making let Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein
were the closest of friends for nearly 15 years. Many of the conversations I had with Jeffrey
Epstein were were precisely about this, of Epstein talking about the the real closeness,
the intimacy of their relationship involved in every aspect of each other's
lives, social lives, sexual lives, business lives. You know, Epstein would say,
I mean, it's Epstein who said we we were the same person.
I know the secrets. And again, to remind everyone. And I've said this before, when Steve Bannon met Jeffrey
Epstein, and I was standing there when this happened, Steve Bannon, the first thing Steve Bannon said putting out his hand,
and shaking Jeffrey Epstein's hand was you were the only person I was afraid
of during the campaign, the 2016 campaign, Jeffrey Epstein knows the secrets. So,
so so I think it is this is this lawsuit is an opportunity
to reconnect, struck their lives together. Donald Trump, Jeffrey Epstein, and then later Melania Trump would come along.
This is this is precisely what Donald Trump wants covered up. So,
bring it on. And how do you think they will perform under deposition.
Is the question, will they tell the truth? Well, you know, they will try to evade, avoid the truth. They will have weeks and weeks of preparation for a deposition,
for a deposition, but good lawyers will be able to triangulate the facts, and they're based on what someone else says.
And your your, your you're looking to give. When you take a deposition, you're looking to give people
no room to maneuver or little room to maneuver. And of course, there are plenty of photographs of them
all hanging out together. One thinks that the famous one with Jeffrey Epstein with his arm around Gilan.
And then there is Melania, and then there's Donald Trump, and it's a quartet of them.
And everybody has used that photo, and it's now an infamous photo. Dylan. It's obviously someone who who might shed light on these matters.
So do you think it's likely you will be deposing Glenn Maxwell? I think everybody who was involved in that circle during that time
period will be is is is someone who will certainly think about calling.
I'm thinking also of some of the tapes of Jeffrey Epstein that you had when you were talking to him at his house.
He'd invited you in to write his biography, and he talked about how he and Donald Trump used to go to Atlantic City
and hunt women together, and also about him talking about how
Melania and Donald Trump first slept together on his plane. All of this, this is, I mean, this is kind of right.
You know, I think that the, there are many opportunities here, but it's but one seems to be to
to be Jeff, bring Jeffrey Epstein back from the dead and let him have a conversation with Donald Trump.
This is what he said. Let's see what Donald Trump says to that. It really is remarkable how he is able, from beyond the grave
to change the political narrative, here in the States.
And of course, this week we've got the publication of Virginia Giuffre's model, Nobody's Girl, which has kicked up a whole new conversation.
Prince Andrew in the UK, with whom she was photographed and who we know was a frequent visitor to Jeffrey Epstein's,
as was his wife, Sarah Ferguson. They have both been brought low by their association
with him, by lying about their association with him. And now it looks as if, Prince
Andrew may be turfed out of Frogmore, which is his, his rent free residency from the royal family.
As as William gets ready to, to take the throne.
So it's all very curious how one man can have such an impact over, all sorts of world leaders.
And, of course, the hunt is on Virginia Giuffre, and nobody's Girl talks about being raped by a prime minister.
She doesn't name the Prime Minister. I'm not quite sure why not. And I don't quite know why the,
Why her ghostwriter, Amy Wallace, hasn't. Hasn't named him either.
But there's now a witch hunt going on to understand who that was. Do you have any insight into who that might be?
I've only ever met one, former prime minister at Jeffrey Epstein's house.
But having said that, now I'm thinking we're there. I mean, there were so many people at, Epstein's house.
Was there a, was there were there any inconsequential prime ministers that I might have met?
And are that is there such a thing as an inconsequential prime minister? Well, it might depend on the country, I suppose.
But the one Prime Minister I met, I met there, it was a consequential prime.
Minister that was a had Barack. Right. Because you write about him in your book, too famous, where he comes
swanning in and immediately starts asking for caviar. He's asked, what he would like to eat, and he very pointedly
says he would love some caviar. And I think a hard boiled egg. Yes. And, I have written about that, and I am just let me rush to say that
I have no, no knowledge that, that a who Barack was as I've done anything wrong or that he had
any relationship with any of the women around Jeffrey Epstein. That is something I don't know.
I do know, however, that Ehud Barak and Jeffrey Epstein were the closest of friends. And,
and I know that that, Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump were the closest of friends.
Epstein. Epstein. Epstein. So, Michael, let's.
Oh, I tell you what I do want to do. I want to let people know about something new that we're doing
that we're rather excited about, which is a our first live performance,
which we are doing at the Museum of the City of New York. We're doing it on November the 5th, which is the day
after the New York mayoral elections, which will be, very interesting to to see how that results.
And I'm assuming we will have a result. But the two of us will be appearing live together,
taking people's questions, talking about whatever will be going on by then. It's three weeks away, so goodness knows the will will have shifted.
But if you're interested in coming to see us, we'll be talking at from 630 to 8
and it's you can get tickets at MK, NY, York. That's the Museum of the City of New york.org, AMC and wider org.
And we would love to see you. Okay. So Michael, we've been promising to talk about Stephen Miller for some time now.
There is enormous interest about him. Where do we begin?
And why don't you begin with Trump's description of Stephen Miller?
How does he think of Stephen Miller when when you're inside Trump's head?
What is he thinking about? Stephen Miller. I know this principally from the first administration
when, Stephen Miller was regarded with throughout the white House as as an odd stir.
An odd stir. Yes. And Trump used to used to talk about him that way and rolled his eyes and, and crazy Stephen and, weird Stephen.
He used to call him Weird Stephen. And I know, and I had asked to meet Stephen Miller once I asked Bannon this,
I said, you know, you know, I'd like to meet, Miller, who already had developed this this, this, this reputation is way out there.
And his I mean, his family was already talking about him as as as as a kind of,
you know, that they had that he had somehow lost, lost the plot of his, of his upper middle
class Jewish family in Los Angeles and, but any rate. So, and Bannon said, you really want to meet him?
Are you sure? And I said and I said,
yeah. He said, okay. And this was in the old executive office building. So Bannon showed me into into the,
small office that that Miller occupied. And we spent a little time together.
And then when I came out and went back to Bannon, he said, he said, well, you see what I mean?
So everybody has this, this, this idea that Stephen Miller is, is
weird. And weird to talk to. Weird in a kind of spectrum way. It's actually physically weird.
I mean, in the, in the moment, the way he looks at you is, is is weird.
I mean, he focuses this intense, intense look,
look kind of unblinking. Look at you. He doesn't really kind of respond to what you say.
He just says what he says. So there there's it's it's it's like you're not really in the
you're not really having a conversation with anyone. You don't really exist in his, in his frame of reference.
And, and when he talks, it's, it's very in, in a banal Mennonite.
But Jesus. Lies in a kind of does he monologue. Yes.
Monologue. Rising way. Thank you. And, you know, in speaks in those kind of in,
in those kind of paragraphs of, of of of what we're going to do and what we have to do and, why, why this is and,
and then he just kind of drones, drones on and
and then suddenly you find that, you know, that, you know, that the, that the Jews are putting, being put on trains.
I mean, it's really that kind of scary stuff. So let's reel back a bit. He he's Jewish.
He grew up in a wealthy enclave of LA and Santa Monica, and he is supposed to be the policy
maker behind Trump's immigration policy. Right?
He he's the reason that we now have masked men. Immigration is the thing that has most animated him.
That is the thing that has that has pushed him into this this,
a sort of a sort of right wing right. The world of right wing extremes.
During the campaign, one of the Trump aides referred to this as
because because they, they, they had used him to talk about immigration, to give an interview
to The New York Times about immigration and, and the aides around Trump, if not Trump himself immediately
regretted this because it produced a, you know, a terrible headlines about what was going to happen
to happen to immigrants, which turns out to be what is happening. But at that moment in time, the other people around Trump,
the more normal people around Trump, one of them referred to as,
he said, Stephen's masturbatory fantasies about immigrants. And why does he feel like this?
I mean, America is, you know, it's a nation of immigrants.
Why? Where does this come from? Well, you know, America has a long history.
I mean, we we should know of of antipathy to immigrants.
I mean, you know, that's an interesting history because antipathy then then, then turns into,
coexistence, then it turns into inclusion. But there is always that, that,
that thread of antipathy, and and that's what I mean, that's what Trump has exploited.
I mean, the Trump campaign starting in 2015,
begins with this idea that we were going to build a wall. So it's a very potent issue.
And, and Trump is Trump is good at identifying those potent issues and sticking with those potent issues.
Repetition, repetition, repetition, part of the Trump
the Trump method. And so Stephen Miller has been,
has, has been a key tool in that, you know, even if Trump considers him
crazy or weird, he has been able to, to,
to strictly focus on that narrative. Immigrants, immigrants are bad, immigrants are dangerous.
And we're going to get them and we're going to expel them. And, and with a, with a language, with an extreme language,
I mean, and and couched in with, with enormous rage and anger. Yes.
And so it's a totally reasonable question. Where does this come from? I mean, Stephen Miller has no reason.
There's nothing in his life that would suggest that, that he or his family or
anyone he knows has been, has been
has had an experience in their, in their own lives or communities in which immigrants would have been a threat.
Well, far from it, I would think, in the wealthy enclaves of LA, in fact,
half the economy is kept going by, by gardeners, by domestic, help
that are all immigrants, I mean, let alone the farms of California. But but it's so hard to understand what triggered him to create
such an extreme policy that we now literally see playing out on the streets
of our cities with masked men, bundling people into the back of unmarked vans,
and people at the site taking videos of it, which we all see on our social media feeds, which are incredibly disturbing, I know.
And I've been told that he watches these things. Someone has described to me, this, this sense of pleasure,
that that you get from Stephen Miller as he watches the videos of this.
So, I mean, this is. Yeah, I mean, this is weird. It's also warped, I think, I think we can say the level of cruelty
that we're seeing, the level of power that is being demonstrated, the level of,
The level of this, the lack of lack of sympathy is,
I think, must be partly what is what's what's motivating him here.
This is, He likes and also the knowledge that this is not something that's going on in secret.
It's going on in public. The with videos this week of it happening in New York ice.
And this is something that's happening in broad daylight. And I think passers by or you know, unexpected witnesses
find it very difficult to know how to respond other than by taking videos of it and posting it and saying,
this is what's going on in your neighborhood. You know, there's a thing here and it's in it's
a it's central to the second Trump administration of of looking at these
large cultural movements in modern American history and trying to undo them.
Civil rights, feminism and the
and in, in the facts that that immigration that immigrants have become a dominant presence
in this country that that in these are brown immigrants. Right. I was going to say it's a very specific kind of immigrant.
Yeah. No. And remember, they've now they're they're now rejigging policies
to, to bring in white immigrants. But so this is against brown immigrants.
And again the these are I mean I'd say that those are three of the most dominant,
themes in modern American life, civil rights, feminism
and the and the and the and, and the history and the, the new history of immigration
of immigrants into this country and it is all about. So push that back, undo this again.
Return to 1965 before the Voting Rights Act. And isn't one of the things about Stephen Miller, too, that after
Donald Trump lost the election in 2020, that Stephen Miller didn't abandon him, other aides abandoned him.
His son in law, Jared Kushner, abandoned him, didn't want anything more to do with him, especially after January the 6th.
I think he, like everyone else, literally everyone was, of the opinion that Trump lost this election and that was
that was that then I think Stephen Miller had had like, like quite a number of people in the white House had nothing to do,
had to reconstitute their careers. And
and it was hard because I think if when you came out of that white House, especially with, with, with January 6th,
there were few opportunities. And so the only opportunities that really existed was to was to
fall back on, on the Trump fold, the Trump universe and the fact that
the Trump universe did not collapse was, I think, a surprise to a lot of people, including people in it.
And then it became became an an opportunity, a surprising opportunity.
And Stephen Miller started a not for profit, started benefiting from from the the general Trump dot sprung collar.
And then he started a a America First legal.
I can't remember the quote, but it was attached to, the, the American first.
I mean, one of the one of the two main conservative, policy organizations, ones the Heritage Foundation.
And then the other is America First was a 501 C3. You know, one of those one of the the the kinds of groups
that that always form in Washington and then serve as, as, as kind of
policy advisers to various to both Democrats or Republicans,
and also between administrations usually are the place that that you wait out
until your guy or your party comes back to the white House.
And as it became clearer and clearer that that, that Trump had a good shot of coming back into the white House,
they these groups became more and more powerful. And, and Stephen Miller
within them became himself more and more powerful
so that when Trump was reelected and came back into the white House, Stephen Miller came back as, as a, as a central policy
player, which he had not been in the first white House. It's just extraordinary his his rise.
And as you say, the cruelty around it. And these videos that people are seeing of
of people being shoved in the back of fans, it's most alarming. Yeah. I don't know anyone in the Trump universe who does not regard Stephen Miller
as a wackadoo. And does Trump like him? Just does Trump like having him around?
Not not especially. I mean, he he may. I mean, I think Trump is a bit confused by him,
by his intensity, by his preoccupation with these, with these issues,
which Trump benefits from, but frankly, is not preoccupied by.
So but in that respect, Stephen Miller is a useful. Tool
until it becomes something that is too much for Americans and they decide that they've had enough of it.
Yeah. And but, you know, and I would say that that should be happening and that is happening.
But but at the same time, what we're just seeing is a true willingness to double down.
And, you know, that's part of part of the
part of this, this, this moment is in which, you know, Trump is not looking forward to a to having to be reelected.
I mean, to back to this idea, we have the power, we can do anything with it, and we should do anything
that we can do with. It while you're doing what you can do and, all being well, you're going to be able to depose, for the first time
ever, the first lady and her husband, the president Donald Trump.
Let's let's pick up and talk more about Stephen Miller on Saturday. He's moving out of his house in DC because he and his wife have been doxed
and because people are apparently turning up and leaving messages in chalk, on the pavement outside, which I'm sure they and their three children
don't appreciate looking at every day. But anyway, their house is up for sale for $3.5 million. If anybody is looking to move to DC and would be up for moving
into the miller's house, you might want to say it first. But Michael, I know you've got lawyers conversations
to have and things to get back to. I want to do a couple of quick shout outs to people who've asked us questions.
Rick Wallace, 41, wants to know, what does the CIA have to say about Trump's actions, or do they just defer to him?
Like all aspects of government, everybody is afraid of Donald Trump.
So, you know, the CIA is not different from any anybody else at this at this point.
It is they they work for they work for Donald Trump. If they forget that,
they're going to be fired. I also think we ought to do a special episode or an entire episode
on the DOJ, because I do find it extraordinary that it's now it appears to be almost entirely staffed with his former personal lawyers.
So we have Pam Bondi, who's the head of the DOJ, Todd Branch, as the number two. And then Lindsey Halligan, now is the US attorney in Virginia,
overseeing, the indictments of James Comey, of John Brennan, of John Bolton.
I mean, this is completely unprecedented for the DOJ to become quite so politicized.
I want to interrogate you on that. And I think we we use the word unprecedented.
And, and that's, that's that's not really the case. That's a value free word.
I mean, it's not it's not it's not necessarily terrible that something is, is happening that has that has never happened in the, in the, in the past.
This is something well beyond that. This is a complete subversion of the very principles
of American justice. And I mean,
Donald Trump, the president of the United States. Again, if you have the power we should use, it
has has taken upon himself to,
to destroy the idea that justice is blind. And now justice is administered, administered only through Donald
Trump's eyes. Very scary place indeed.
Michael, go forth and deal with your lawyers and we will talk again on Saturday.
Can't wait. Can you just remind people to subscribe? Please subscribe to us. I'm not.
I'm continuing to be, unsure how that is done, but they tell me you can just push a button.
I think you just press something cool. Subscribe. And if you have been. Thank you for joining us again.
If you haven't been based, and we will see you back here inside Trump's head on Saturday.
And a shout out to our top tier BBC members Karen White, Heidi Riley, Connie Rutherford, Sharon Shipley, Andrea Hodel and Free DC.
Thanks to our production team Devin Roger Reno and Yvonne, Ersan and Jesse Millwood.

 

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