'I served in the Army 40 years and I have not been in a predicament like this': Ret. Lt. Gen.

  'I served in the Army 40 years and I have not been in a predicament like this': Ret. Lt. Gen. 

 

in the Army 40 years and I have not been in a predicament like this': Ret. Lt. Gen.

MS NOW

9.75M subscribers

 views

Apr 7, 2026 #trump #iran #politics

President Trump is dismissing concerns that his threats against Iran signal potential war crimes and international law violations. MS NOW Senior National Security Reporter David Rohde, retired Lt. General Steph Twitty and former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Joel Rubin join Laura Barrón-López to discuss the U.S. military potentially preparing to strike civilian infrastructure in Iran. MS NOW: My Source for News, Opinion, and the World. » Subscribe to MS NOW:    / @msnow   » Subscribe to MS NOW’s We the People Newsletter for exclusive content from your favorite MS NOW anchors. Sign up now for free at https://ms.now/joinus. MS NOW is the go-to destination for domestic and international breaking news, and best-in-class opinion journalism. For more context and news coverage of the most important stories of our day click here: https://www.ms.now/ #trump #iran #politics

Transcript

0:01

1 second

Here with the latest, MSNOW senior national security reporter David Rode, Joel Rubin, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State, and retired U .S.

0:08

8 seconds

Army Lieutenant General Steph He served as the former deputy commander of the U .S. European Command. David, to you first.

0:15

15 seconds

The president's latest threat is raising a lot of concerns and alarms, and it comes amid the strikes on Karg Island.

0:22

22 seconds

And Israel says THE BORDER, IT SAYS IT STRUCK EIGHT BRIDGES.

0:24

24 seconds

HOW IS THIS ALL IMPACTING THE LAST-MINUTE NEGOTIATIONS?

0:28

28 seconds

I'VE TALKED TO TWO DIPMATS FROM THE PERSIAN GULF JUST now and they tell me the chances are very low

0:35

35 seconds

at this point for an agreement before President Trump's 8 p .m. deadline tonight.

0:40

40 seconds

One of them said, you know, put the chances at zero.

0:44

44 seconds

And they SAID THAT ONE SORT OF INDICATOR OF THIS, THE PERCEPTION IS FROM THE REGION, IS VICE PRESIDENT J .D.

0:53

53 seconds

VANCE'S TRAVEL TO HUNGARY TODAY.

0:55

55 seconds

PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID YESTERDAY AND HAS SAID MANY TIMES that Vance is part of the negotiating team that's leading the effort with the Iranians to try to strike a deal.

1:04

1 minute, 4 seconds

That includes also Steve Whitcoff and Jared Kushner.

1:07

1 minute, 7 seconds

But the fact that Vance is traveling overseas today is seen AS A SIGN THAT THERE'S NO THEY'RE NOT CLOSE TO A DEAL.

1:14

1 minute, 14 seconds

THERE'S OTHER REASONS THAT THEY THINK THEY'RE NOT CLOSE TO A DEAL. THEY DON'T WANT TO GET INTO DETAILS, BUT THAT'S THE LATEST UPDATE THAT I HAVE.

1:22

1 minute, 22 seconds

SO AGAIN, WITH HOURS TO go. No deal appears to be in sight, Joel.

1:27

1 minute, 27 seconds

Have you ever seen anything like the threat that we saw this morning, especially with critical talks underway?

1:34

1 minute, 34 seconds

Laura, no, not in American history have we seen a president essentially threatened nuclear war.

1:40

1 minute, 40 seconds

And we have to be clear that the president of the United States has unilateral, sole authority to make those decisions.

1:47

1 minute, 47 seconds

So I view this as sort of the throw the spaghetti at the wall phase of our diplomacy. The president is on his own. He's putting out all different ideas.

1:55

1 minute, 55 seconds

He's playing bad cop.

1:56

1 minute, 56 seconds

The problem is there's no good cop right now in the diplomacy. Where is NATO on the diplomacy? Where are our Arab allies on the diplomacy?

2:04

2 minutes, 4 seconds

Where DIPLOMACY, THE PRESIDENT IS ACTING IN HIS OWN WAY,

2:11

2 minutes, 11 seconds

HE'S DOING THINGS, SAYING THINGS ARE VERY DAMAGING TO OUR CREDIBILITY AS A COUNTRY AND HE CLEARLY DOESN'T HAVE A DEPLOMATIC OFF-RAMP TO CLAIM VICTORY AND GET GAINS OUT OF THIS WAR THAT HE WANTS.

2:22

2 minutes, 22 seconds

THAT'S WHY WE'RE IN THIS MOMENT WE'RE IN RIGHT NOW.

2:24

2 minutes, 24 seconds

I MEAN, FOR THAT MATTER, WHERE IS THE NATION'S TOP DIPLOMATIC SECRETARY OF STATE MARCO RUBIO?

2:28

2 minutes, 28 seconds

AND THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT PEOPLE THAT THE PRESIDENT APPEARS TO BE GETTING ADVICE FROM.

2:33

2 minutes, 33 seconds

BUT, GENERAL, ON TOP OF THIS THREAT THIS MORNING WHERE THE PRESIDENT WAS TALKING ABOUT ANNIHILATING AN ENTIRE CIVILIZATION.

2:40

2 minutes, 40 seconds

I ALSO WANT TO PLAY FOR YOU SOME OF WHAT TRUMP HAS SAID DURING YESTERDAY'S PRESS CONFERENCE WHEN HE WAS ASKED ABOUT POTENTIAL CIVILIAN TARGETS.

2:48

2 minutes, 48 seconds

TAKE A listen. Are there certain kinds of civilian targets, though? I'm thinking schools or hospitals that you... I don't want to tell you that.

2:57

2 minutes, 57 seconds

We have a plan, because of the power of our military.

3:02

3 minutes, 2 seconds

Where every bridge in Iran will be decimated by 12 o'clock tomorrow night,

3:10

3 minutes, 10 seconds

where every power plant in Iran will be out of business burning exploding and never to be used again i mean

3:19

3 minutes, 19 seconds

complete demolition by 12 o'clock and it'll happen over a period of four hours if we wanted to we're giving them uh we're giving them till tomorrow eight

3:28

3 minutes, 28 seconds

o'clock eastern time and after that they're going to have no bridges they're going to have

3:35

3 minutes, 35 seconds

no power plants stone ages years, yeah. General Twitty, back in November,

3:44

3 minutes, 44 seconds

six democratic lawmakers with military and intelligence backgrounds urge service members to refuse illegal orders. With what we're hearing from the president,

3:54

3 minutes, 54 seconds

could all of that rise to this level of service members needing to refuse an illegal order? Yeah.

4:03

4 minutes, 3 seconds

As you know, we're in a difficult situation right now, and this is interesting. I served in the Army 40 years,

4:10

4 minutes, 10 seconds

and I have not been in a predicament like this or was not in a particular predicament like this.

4:18

4 minutes, 18 seconds

So this will be interesting to see where we go here.

4:21

4 minutes, 21 seconds

I'm sure that the lawyers out there from the National Security Council all the way down to the unit level are trying to tie the infrastructure,

4:34

4 minutes, 34 seconds

the bridges, the power facilities, everything,

4:38

4 minutes, 38 seconds

trying and tie that to military operations inside Iran.

4:44

4 minutes, 44 seconds

In other words, if Iran uses the bridges for a troop movement, then it's a legitimate target.

4:52

4 minutes, 52 seconds

There are legitimate targets out there that could be bridges and electricity facilities, water plants, and so forth.

5:01

5 minutes, 1 second

But the way I'm hearing this play out, we're talking about across the entire country,

5:07

5 minutes, 7 seconds

and I'm not so sure that all those facilities would be legal targets. Joel, to the general's point, though,

5:16

5 minutes, 16 seconds

when it comes to a national security council or people advising the president,

5:21

5 minutes, 21 seconds

there is no normal infrastructure that used to exist in prior administrations.

5:25

5 minutes, 25 seconds

And we have no indication that Congress or any international body is going to hold the president accountable

5:33

5 minutes, 33 seconds

if he does strike civilian IN THE WALL STREET JOURNAL DETAILING THE FRUSTRATIONS OTHER NATIONS HAVE WITH WHAT THEY ARE CALLING AN ERRATIC UNITED STATES.

5:42

5 minutes, 42 seconds

SO WHAT KIND OF POSITION DOES THIS PUT OUR ALLIES ARRIZING.

5:46

5 minutes, 46 seconds

YEAH, LAURA, LOOK, THERE IS NO ACCOUNTABILITY MECHANISM RIGHT NOW. THERE IS ONE CALLED U .S. CONGRESS, THERE IS ONE THE ELECTIONS, THE TIMELINE FOR THOSE,

5:54

5 minutes, 54 seconds

THE CLOCK DOESN'T RUN AT THE SAME TIME AS THIS WAR.

5:57

5 minutes, 57 seconds

SO FOR OUR ALLIES, THEY'RE VERY CONCERNED AND FRUSTRATED. THEY NEED TO STEP STEP IN. QUITE FRANKLY, TOMORROW FOR EXAMPLE, SECRETARY GENERAL RUTTA OF NATO,

6:06

6 minutes, 6 seconds

HE'S COMING TO WASHINGTON.

6:07

6 minutes, 7 seconds

HE NEEDS TO BE COMING TO WASHINGTON WITH THE FULL BACKING OF THE NATO ALLIES AND PRESENT A PLAN TO THE PRESIDENT ON HOW TO DEAL

6:14

6 minutes, 14 seconds

WITH THE PROBLEMS THAT IRAN HAS CREATED IN THE REGION WHERE HE CAN SAY WE'LL HELP YOU WITH THESE. WE NEED A DIPLOMATIC OFF-RAMP. WE NEED TO END this war.

6:22

6 minutes, 22 seconds

Absent that, there's no formal legal mechanism that's going to somehow force the president into a different policy.

6:28

6 minutes, 28 seconds

This is where our allies need to show that they are allies to the American people,

6:32

6 minutes, 32 seconds

not just the American military when they need our help.

6:35

6 minutes, 35 seconds

It's stunning that there seems to be nothing that can potentially stop this, David. In the midst of all of this,

6:42

6 minutes, 42 seconds

the Iranian regime has called for human chains around power plants.

6:46

6 minutes, 46 seconds

The Iranian president claims he and 14 million other people have offered to sacrifice their lives in this war.

6:54

6 minutes, 54 seconds

What does this tell you about the mindset of the regime? I think it shows the regimes, the president himself, that they are determined to resist this.

7:02

7 minutes, 2 seconds

They're trying to sort of out-bluff Trump's bluffing.

7:06

7 minutes, 6 seconds

The real concern here is just that the president of the United States,

7:09

7 minutes, 9 seconds

no president I've known has ever threatened to destroy an entire civilization. And that's what's so unusual about this.

7:17

7 minutes, 17 seconds

I agree with General Twitty,

7:19

7 minutes, 19 seconds

the American military is being put in a terrible position.

7:21

7 minutes, 21 seconds

There are lawyers who have to approve each of these strikes.

7:24

7 minutes, 24 seconds

My fear is they present the president with a list, you know, close to eight o'clock tonight. And he's like, no, I want more targets. So it's just so unprecedented and unusual.

7:33

7 minutes, 33 seconds

And then lastly, this strategy of targeting bridges and power plants, I don't know who told the president this,

7:41

7 minutes, 41 seconds

but even if he carries out these strikes, the Iranian regime is not going to collapse. The key here is opening up the Strait of Hormuz.

7:49

7 minutes, 49 seconds

That is the biggest leverage point.

7:51

7 minutes, 51 seconds

And what Joel was saying, there should be an international effort. This is what past presidents have done, to create a coalition.

7:58

7 minutes, 58 seconds

Europe, Japan and Korea, all the world needs that international waterway to be open.

8:04

8 minutes, 4 seconds

What Iran is doing by firing on these tankers is against international law.

8:09

8 minutes, 9 seconds

And there should be a way, a better tactic would be to create an international effort, Gulf states will participate in it as well,

8:15

8 minutes, 15 seconds

to reopen the Strait of Hormuz and isolate this regime in Iran.

8:19

8 minutes, 19 seconds

Blowing up you know, these power plants and bridges is actually going to create sympathy for the regime in Iran and is not going to cause them to collapse.

8:27

8 minutes, 27 seconds

General, as we mentioned, we're now less than nine hours away from the the president's deadline.

8:34

8 minutes, 34 seconds

So what kind of plans is the Pentagon likely making? What kind of scenarios are you watching for?

8:40

8 minutes, 40 seconds

And do you think that the president is actually listening to the military lawyers that David was just referring Yeah, well, first of all, I would say we're at a point where,

8:52

8 minutes, 52 seconds

and I have opposed this since the beginning of the war, but when it comes to options.

8:59

8 minutes, 59 seconds

There are more options out there than just blowing up plants and so forth. I would much rather see U .S.

9:06

9 minutes, 6 seconds

ground troops introduced into this fight to be able to go in,

9:12

9 minutes, 12 seconds

fight, retain land, destroy the IRGC and other tasks than to see us kill innocent civilians.

9:22

9 minutes, 22 seconds

And so also, we've already talked about this, the diplomacy. There's been very little diplomacy.

9:29

9 minutes, 29 seconds

There's been very little of other countries getting involved to try to mediate and move things forward here.

9:38

9 minutes, 38 seconds

So there's so many other options that we have not exercised before going in to do something of this nature.

9:46

9 minutes, 46 seconds

And on your question on whether this is going to be executed or not,

9:55

9 minutes, 55 seconds

I don't know. We'll see.

9:58

9 minutes, 58 seconds

It is my hope that the generals stand forward and say, look, if we're going after civilian targets,

10:06

10 minutes, 6 seconds

then put your stars on the line because the last thing you want to do is live the rest of your life knowing that you kill innocent civilians.

10:16

10 minutes, 16 seconds

We already do that when we kill innocent civilians and we don't mean to,

10:23

10 minutes, 23 seconds

and that carries very heavily on us throughout the rest of our lives.

10:28

10 minutes, 28 seconds

And I can't imagine for our military to go in and kill innocent civilians knowing that that's what they're doing.

10:36

10 minutes, 36 seconds

And so hopefully, cooler heads will prevail here.

10:40

10 minutes, 40 seconds

And we'll think through this and look at the other options. If cooler heads don't prevail,

10:48

10 minutes, 48 seconds

Joel, I just want to go back to the accountability question for this last moment because the war is changing some of the policies that our allies are implementing.

10:59

10 minutes, 59 seconds

You know, the war is not popular in a number of their countries and so they're responding to that because their populations, their VOTERS DON'T NECESSARILY SUPPORT THIS,

11:09

11 minutes, 9 seconds

WHEN IT COMES TO SPAIN, THEY'VE ALREADY CLOSED THEIR AIRSPACE TO U .S. AIRCRAFT INVOLVED IN THE IRAN WAR,

11:15

11 minutes, 15 seconds

SO WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE LONG-TERM IMPACT HERE WHEN IT COMES TO OUR ALLIES?

11:20

11 minutes, 20 seconds

WELL, YOU KNOW, LAURA, AMERICA IS SAFER AND STRONGER WHEN WE HAVE OUR ALLIES.

11:24

11 minutes, 24 seconds

AND WE'VE BEEN SAFE SINCE 1945 GENERALLY SPEAKING BECAUSE OF THOSE ALLIANCES IN AND THAT'S WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS DOING,

11:33

11 minutes, 33 seconds

HE'S EXECUTING A WAR SEPARATE FROM THOSE ALLIES.

11:35

11 minutes, 35 seconds

HE'S GOING IT ALONE GENERALLY SPEAKING AS WELL ALONG WITH ISRAEL OF COURSE BUT BY GOING IT ALONE HE IS CHOOSING A WE ARE GOING TO SAY IF YOU WANT TO GO OUT ALONE,

11:47

11 minutes, 47 seconds

YOU ARE ALONE.

11:50

11 minutes, 50 seconds

I THINK THAT'S VERY DANGEROUS FOR OUR OVERALL SECURITY.

 

Follow along using the transcript.

MS NOW

9.75M subscribers