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#Trump #KashPatel #HowardLutnickTranscript
Follow along using the transcript.
I want to bring in MS Now's Michael Chanel on Capitol Hill. David Ducker is senior writer at the
5 seconds
dispatch, an MS Now contributor and author of the book In Trump Shadow. Lisa Rubin is MS Now senior 11 seconds
legal reporter. I think it's notable, Michael, that Lutnik is the first of Trump's cabinet 17 seconds
members questioned in the Epstein investigation. What might we know about what's happening behind 22 seconds
closed doors? Yeah, Chris, it's incredibly notable and some could say it's one of the biggest, if not 28 seconds
the
biggest day and conversation that the House Oversight Committee will
be having as part of this longunning investigation into Jeffrey
Epstein. So, in terms of this transcribed interview, 39 seconds
it got underway at around 11:15 a.m. this morning. They are still inside in that room just behind me. 45 seconds
The
way that this thing works is that Howard Lutnik gives an opening
statement and then Republicans are given the opportunity to question
him and then Democrats are given 52 seconds
the
opportunity and they go back and forth from there. Of course, as you
mentioned, the questions center on what the relationship was between
Howard Lutnik and Jeffrey Epste and 1 minute, 1 second
how
long it lasted. There are questions about the timeline of their ties.
Howard Lutnik said that after a 2005 encounter, he had cut off ties
with Jeffrey Epstein, but then he had confirmed 1 minute, 11 seconds
that 2012 visit to Epstein Island. And up to 2018, there are email correspondents between 1 minute, 18 seconds
folks
in Lutnik's circle and folks in Jeffrey Epstein's circle. And I can
tell you this is a day that lawmakers have been looking forward to
for a very long time in terms of talking to 1 minute, 27 seconds
Howard
Lutnik. He's appeared at least two times before under oath for
different hearings in his capacity as commerce secretary. And he had
told lawmakers earlier that he would be answering 1 minute, 37 seconds
their questions about Jeffrey Epstein come today. Take a listen to one of those previous exchanges.1 minute, 44 seconds
Why did you lie about your relationship with Epstein? House Oversight Committee 1 minute, 51 seconds
and I have agreed the time reclaiming my time. I do not accept that answer. 1 minute, 57 seconds
We've
heard that one. We are our own committee. We have our own reason to
test your credibility and veracity. Please answer the question. Why did
you lie to the 2 minutes, 7 seconds
post? I have voluntarily agreed. to spend the time and talk about it. I reclaim the time. 2 minutes, 16 seconds
Let the record reflect. You're dodging the question. The cover up continues.2 minutes, 23 seconds
So,
Chris Howard Lutnik right there saying he would answer questions about
his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein today. Again, that is
happening behind closed doors right now. I'm told by a 2 minutes, 31 seconds
source in that room behind me that Lutnik said it was unsettling when he had received an invitation 2 minutes, 37 seconds
to
visit Epstein Island, but of course, he then took his family there
anyway. were sure to glean through the details of that exchange once
we get our hands on the transcript. One more note 2 minutes, 47 seconds
that
I'll say about today's transcribed interview, there are only about six
members of Congress who are present. It's because this is happening
during a week when Congress is out of session, the House 2 minutes, 56 seconds
not
holding votes. This it's worth noting that there is some frustration
among Democratic members that it's happening on a recess day. However,
this transcribed interview was scheduled back in March 3 minutes, 6 seconds
um
when Congress was supposed to be in session this week. Then the House
schedule changed because King Charles visited last week and they had
to line up the schedule with the Senate. Um 3 minutes, 15 seconds
so
some members in there but certainly not the full committee as they get
this very key witness behind them to ask them ask him about Jeffrey
Epstein. Michael, thank you for that. Uh David, 3 minutes, 25 seconds
it's against that backdrop um that I think it's important to play this series of examples of how 3 minutes, 30 seconds
Howard Lutnik's stories have shifted dramatically in just the past four months. Here it is. 3 minutes, 38 seconds
So, I was never in the room with him socially, for business, or even philanthropy. If that guy 3 minutes, 45 seconds
was there, I wasn't going cuz he's gross. I did have lunch with him as I was on a boat 3 minutes, 53 seconds
going across on a family vacation. My wife was with me, as were my four children and nannies.4 minutes, 3 seconds
We
all forget things, David. Um, but I guess is the key question here,
whether members of Congress who actually are there find it plausible
he could have forgotten bringing his entire 4 minutes, 13 seconds
family to a private island owned by someone like Jeffrey Epste who he did not have good things to 4 minutes, 20 seconds
say about over the years. Yeah. And the nannies plural. So, uh, that was an interesting little 4 minutes, 25 seconds
side
note there. Look, it's very possible uh, for anybody to forget a whole
bunch of things. I mean, I can barely remember what I did last week,
let alone a decade ago, who I met with, 4 minutes, 35 seconds
who
I didn't meet with. I forget things all the time. The problem is when
you're a high-profile, either elected official or public official and
there's a major investigation like this, 4 minutes, 45 seconds
people are going to be very skeptical of the idea that you forgot something. That's just a 4 minutes, 50 seconds
price you pay for being in public service. Um, and you know, I I think as this investigation unfolds 4 minutes, 58 seconds
and presumably as uh Mr. Lutnik went back through his his calendars and and went through everything, 5 minutes, 7 seconds
um, he he he may now that he's, you know, deemed deposed by by the the committee have a better idea 5 minutes, 14 seconds
exactly where he was, when he was, and who he was with. As a matter of politics, what I have found 5 minutes, 19 seconds
over the years are are a couple of things, Chris. one, uh, people have a much higher bar for for the 5 minutes, 26 seconds
other
political party than they do for their own. So, they're going to be a
lot of voters, um, on one side here. They're going to be really
skeptical of Mr. Lutnik and and probably a lot of 5 minutes, 35 seconds
voters
on his side that are going to give him the benefit of the doubt. The
other thing here is that look, the president's running a war in Iran.
Uh, and it's still a war no matter what 5 minutes, 44 seconds
he says. Inflation is up. The economy is in, you know, voters perceive it to be in difficult shape. 5 minutes, 51 seconds
and
the president's party is under the gun as we approach the midterm
elections. These are the sorts of distractions that you really don't
want um when you're dealing with such momentous 6 minutes, 1 second
issues and this thing just doesn't go away and it it's not going to go away anytime soon. So Lisa, 6 minutes, 8 seconds
as
someone who has read many of the thousands of pages in the Epstein
files and has stayed on top of this story from the very beginning,
what are the key questions you would like to to or would 6 minutes, 18 seconds
hope
to see answered? Well, look, the very most basic question that I have
is the one that Maline Dean has, which is why did you misrepresent to
the post the fact that you continued to have a 6 minutes, 27 seconds
relationship with this person because it's not just that 2012 island visit? There are emails 6 minutes, 33 seconds
between the two of them that persist through 2018. But here are my most fundamental questions. What 6 minutes, 40 seconds
else did you see when you either visited his home or interacted with him on the island? 6 minutes, 45 seconds
Who did you tell? Did you notify anyone that something seemed arai to you or in his words 6 minutes, 50 seconds
gross? And maybe most importantly of all, why did you continue to do business with him? And 6 minutes, 56 seconds
I
think this is an overlooked part of the Howard Lutnik story. Howard
Lutnick and Jeffrey Epstein were both investors in a company called
Adfin in 2018. In their last known email correspondents, 7 minutes, 7 seconds
Jeffrey
Epstein is asking Howard Lutnik about how this shared investment of
theirs is performing. Howard Lutnik through a spokesperson at one
point said he had no idea that Jeffrey Epstein was also 7 minutes, 17 seconds
an investor. That email exchange however puts the lie to that. And so there's only so many times 7 minutes, 23 seconds
a
person can forget notwithstanding what David says about the fact that
we are more forgiving sometimes of people who agree with us than we
are of people who don't. There is a pattern here and 7 minutes, 33 seconds
it doesn't just pertain to 2012. I want to know why Howard Lutnik continued despite his statements 7 minutes, 39 seconds
to the Post to have social, professional, and philanthropic ties with Jeffrey Epstein. And 7 minutes, 44 seconds
maybe I've misread or misremembered, but the first encounter that they had, as I recall it, 7 minutes, 51 seconds
Lutnik and his wife were invited over by their next door neighbor, Jeffrey Epstein, 7 minutes, 55 seconds
to see the place. He takes them into a room and is curious about why there is a massage room in the 8 minutes, 4 seconds
center of this. I think it's the largest private residence in New York. And he makes an offolor 8 minutes, 10 seconds
comment about the types of massages. That was their first significant encounter. I believe that 8 minutes, 17 seconds
that's correct. And Howard Lutnik then goes on to tell the New York Post in that podcast interview 8 minutes, 22 seconds
that he and his wife together vow they are never going to be again in a room with Jeffrey Epstein. 8 minutes, 28 seconds
And yet we know that while they maybe weren't in a self-contained room, they had lunch on the 8 minutes, 34 seconds
island outside and continued to have engagements or interactions with him, whether via email or, 8 minutes, 41 seconds
for example, Howard Letic invited Jeffrey Epstein to a 2015 fundraiser he held on behalf of then 8 minutes, 47 seconds
Secretary
and presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. Those are the kinds of
things that people are going to want to have explained. Why did you
continue to reach out to this person? 8 minutes, 57 seconds
Why
did you continue to have even a distant acquaintance-like relationship
with him if you were so fundamentally, for lack of a better word,
grossed out by what you saw at your next-door 9 minutes, 7 seconds
neighbor's
home? Why didn't you completely disassociate from him? And why didn't
you tell other people in your social circle that something was ary?
It doesn't seem like Howard Letic 9 minutes, 16 seconds
did
that, but today, of course, he'll have an opportunity to more fully
explain himself. David, if you want proof that Democrats are going to
keep Epstein in the headlines, you can take a look at 9 minutes, 25 seconds
shared Brown's very first ad. first ad in the Ohio Senate race released just a couple of days ago. 9 minutes, 31 seconds
Here's part of it. Of all 535 members of Congress, who's taken the most money from associates of 9 minutes, 40 seconds
Jeffrey Epstein? John Houston. That's who. So, if you're a Republican in one of these tight and in 9 minutes, 48 seconds
that case, I think unexpectedly tossup races, how do you even handle that? Yeah, this isn't a fight 9 minutes, 55 seconds
you
want to have. I mean, there are a couple of things here, Chris. I
mean, you know, one, this is a a story that cuts across party lines,
as we saw last year with with both parties coming 10 minutes, 4 seconds
together to force uh the passage of the Epstein Transparency Act and to get, you know, as much 10 minutes, 10 seconds
information as the DOJ will apparently release um out behind the curtain and and so it's not 10 minutes, 17 seconds
a bad message to prosecute. I still think overall um shared Brown and other Democratic challengers 10 minutes, 24 seconds
are going to be in better shape focusing on affordability, which is our voters number one 10 minutes, 30 seconds
concern of all political stripes. But this is a good way to to politically push Republicans 10 minutes, 36 seconds
off balance and put them in a position where they may feel compelled to to answer a lot of questions 10 minutes, 41 seconds
they they don't feel like answering. So, not a bad bad opening gambit. Um, as a closing message, 10 minutes, 48 seconds
I
think all candidates will be better off taking a look at the polling
in their district or state, seeing what those top priorities are, and
then hammering those above anything else. There is 10 minutes, 59 seconds
brand new reporting today on the country's top law enforcement agency pouring time, energy, 11 minutes, 4 seconds
and resources not into protecting the American people from all of the myriad threats we face here 11 minutes, 10 seconds
at home and abroad, but instead attacking the free press and pursuing a single journalist who dared 11 minutes, 17 seconds
to write a deeply unflattering piece of reporting about the director of the FBI. Two people familiar 11 minutes, 23 seconds
with the matter are telling our colleagues Carol Lenig and Kendallian that the FBI has opened a 11 minutes, 29 seconds
criminal leak investigation into Atlantic magazine reporter Sarah Fitzpatrick. You may remember 11 minutes, 35 seconds
Fitzpatrick wrote an alarming piece of reporting. The headline was the FBI director's MIA. For that 11 minutes, 41 seconds
report, she spoke to more than two dozen sources. That reporting detailed Cash Patel's emotional 11 minutes, 47 seconds
outbursts, his unexplained absences and excessive drinking to the point that quote, "Some of Patel's 11 minutes, 54 seconds
colleagues at the FBI worry that his personal behavior has become a threat to public safety." 12 minutes
Cash Patel sued The Atlantic for publishing that story. Cash Patel claims that the story 12 minutes, 6 seconds
is defamatory, that it amounts to defamation. The Atlantic is standing by its reporting, even saying 12 minutes, 12 seconds
that it has received more corroboration about its reporting since the story published. Now, 12 minutes, 18 seconds
the FBI has launched a quote so-called insider threat investigation, which is, according to 12 minutes, 24 seconds
Carol Lenig and Kendanian, highly unusual because it did not stem from a disclosure of 12 minutes, 30 seconds
classified information and because it is focused on leaks to a reporter. With this investigation, 12 minutes, 36 seconds
agents can now try to gain access to Sarah Fitzpatrick's phone and phone records. They can go 12 minutes, 41 seconds
through her contacts on social media, and they can run her name through various FBI databases. It is 12 minutes, 48 seconds
something that is making some staffers at the FBI deeply uncomfortable. One source telling MS Now, 12 minutes, 55 seconds
quote, "They know they are not supposed to do this, but if they don't go forward, they 13 minutes
could lose their jobs. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't." This news today though tells 13 minutes, 6 seconds
us well a a whole lot about the state of the FBI under Cash Patel and what his priorities are. But 13 minutes, 14 seconds
it also leads to real legal questions. Questions about the lawsuit Cash Patel is bringing against 13 minutes, 19 seconds
The Atlantic. Because you see, if the Atlantic's reporting is actually defamation, as Patel claims, 13 minutes, 28 seconds
and seems prepared to argue in court, that would mean that Patel has the goods. He can prove it is 13 minutes, 34 seconds
all false and that it was printed with malice. But if that's true, then it cannot also be true that a 13 minutes, 41 seconds
criminal leak investigation is necessary, the kind normally reserved for the disclosure of classified 13 minutes, 47 seconds
state secrets of real information. Those two are in legal contradiction. In a statement, an FBI 13 minutes, 54 seconds
spokesperson denies that the investigation exists at all. The Atlantic said this in a statement. 14 minutes
Quote,
"An FBI criminal leak investigation targeting our reporter would
represent an outrageous attack on the free press and the First
Amendment itself. We will defend the Atlantic and 14 minutes, 10 seconds
its staff vigorously. We will not be intimidated by illegitimate investigations or other acts 14 minutes, 16 seconds
of politically motivated retaliation. We will continue to cover the FBI professionally, fairly, 14 minutes, 22 seconds
and
thoroughly. And we will continue to practice journalism in the public
interest. That is where we start today with the journalist who broke
this story, senior investigative reporter Carol Lenig. 14 minutes, 32 seconds
Also
joining us, former assistant special agent in charge at the FBI,
national security intelligence analyst for us, Michael Fineberg. Uh
Carol Lenig, take me through what you and Ken are reporting 14 minutes, 41 seconds
today. Yes. With my great colleague Kendallian, we we broke a story that honestly made us both really 14 minutes, 49 seconds
worried for uh a free press uh reporters in the normal everyday course of news gathering because 14 minutes, 58 seconds
we write about this too and we've written quite a bit about the FBI and about Cash Patel before 15 minutes, 3 seconds
this Atlantic story ran. What we learned was that the FBI agents in a unit in Huntsville, 15 minutes, 11 seconds
Alabama, where Director Patel basically transferred, tons and tons of agents, hundreds, 15 minutes, 17 seconds
I think in excess of 500 FBI personnel were were transferred to Huntsville. that unit began getting 15 minutes, 25 seconds
instructions and orders from the executive suite of Patel that they were to investigate and review 15 minutes, 33 seconds
uh Sarah um Fitzpatrick's interactions with social media with contacts with links. We don't know the 15 minutes, 42 seconds
status right now, Nicole, of whether or not they have compelled any internet or phone providers to 15 minutes, 49 seconds
turn over her um turn over records. uh metadata and other things about her contacts with sources, 15 minutes, 56 seconds
but we are told that investigations ongoing and the agents involved have raised concern 16 minutes, 2 seconds
internally, obviously not to the director directly, but have raised concerns that this is 16 minutes, 9 seconds
not how FBI investigations go. They are typically predicated on a likely crime. They exhaust every 16 minutes, 17 seconds
means possible in investigations to determine whether a criminal leak has occurred and they 16 minutes, 24 seconds
also go to a reporter's information when they are very sure a crime has occurred and they 16 minutes, 31 seconds
need the information and have exhausted all other means. And this is not what's happening today. 16 minutes, 38 seconds
What? First of all, why did he transfer 500 agents to Huntsville, Alabama? You know, 16 minutes, 45 seconds
Patel uh has a vision uh or a a version of the FBI in his mind in which they are cops, 16 minutes, 53 seconds
and he believes that having a lot of FBI personnel in Washington is a waste of resources. and sending 17 minutes
specialized teams out to field offices, which is what he did, and to Huntsville means fewer 17 minutes, 6 seconds
people in the so-called bureaucracy. I'm not so sure it accomplishes what he's saying about 17 minutes, 13 seconds
putting
more cops on the street, which by the way is not what FBI agents are.
Um, but it certainly removes more people from Washington and creates
the optic that you 17 minutes, 23 seconds
have a smaller, slim down headquarters and more people, quote unquote, in the field.17 minutes, 31 seconds
What crime would the agents in Huntsville, Alabama take a single step that violates her freedoms, 17 minutes, 41 seconds
that violates her privacy to even pretend to investigate? The crime of making Cash Patel look 17 minutes, 49 seconds
like an alcoholic or a bad employee? I mean, like, what what crime even gets this out the door? So, 17 minutes, 57 seconds
I want to be careful about this, Nicole. And I know you know what I'm going to say next. This 18 minutes, 1 second
is ongoing reporting. Um, however, what I can say to you is it is unheard of for any of these 18 minutes, 11 seconds
steps to be taken when there is not evidence of a disclosure of classified information. 18 minutes, 19 seconds
However, when Pam Bondi was the attorney general, she rescended an important media policy that had 18 minutes, 27 seconds
been codified and and made much more specific by former Attorney General Merrick Garland. And when 18 minutes, 35 seconds
she repealed those that policy about when you can compel um say a Verizon or you know um AT&T 18 minutes, 46 seconds
to turn over phone metadata. She repealed those provisions that required the attorney general, 18 minutes, 53 seconds
the deputy attorney general's uh permission and authority to do that. and and in her repeal, 19 minutes, 1 second
she also said that they could have leak investigations for classified information leaks, 19 minutes, 7 seconds
but also sensitive information leaks. Now, it's not a crime to discuss sensitive law 19 minutes, 15 seconds
enforcement sensitive material and and it's just curious about Bondi's policy 19 minutes, 21 seconds
that it changed the language ever so slightly. I can see a world in which Cash Patel believes 19 minutes, 28 seconds
or his lawyers or his counselors believe that they can argue that his movements 19 minutes, 34 seconds
um across the country or what his security detail communicate internally is law 19 minutes, 42 seconds
enforcement sensitive or sensitive about his whereabouts and his safety and his security. 19 minutes, 48 seconds
We don't know that's what's going on, but I am really pinpointing as an analyst of this event how 19 minutes, 58 seconds
Bondi's language about when they can begin leak investigations is different from Attorney General 20 minutes, 4 seconds
Merrick Garland's provisions. I mean, Michael Fineberg, I um always listen very carefully to 20 minutes, 11 seconds
what Carolyn says and doesn't say. And um on the doesn't say part, I mean, they have a tool 20 minutes, 18 seconds
to use um their extraordinary powers um at the Department of Justice and the FBI to hack into 20 minutes, 28 seconds
basically, you know, read all of her emails and u text messages and encrypted messages in 20 minutes, 36 seconds
pursuit of a flat unflattering article about Cash Patel. I mean that is that is the worst example 20 minutes, 43 seconds
one of the worst examples of people acting in a way that presupposes this moment won't end. 20 minutes, 50 seconds
Um
it is also part of a pattern. New York Times reported last week the
FBI said have investigated Times reporter after article on Cash
Patel's girlfriend. Um tell me what you make of this.21 minutes, 3 seconds
Yeah. I mean, well, first I want to clarify they can't actually get the contact the content of any 21 minutes, 10 seconds
of her messages or phone calls or emails without getting an article 3 independent judge to sign 21 minutes, 16 seconds
off on it. That's sort of the one bull work we have left to stop them from totally overreaching. 21 minutes, 24 seconds
But what we're seeing here is a sea change in terms of how the FBI views its relationship with 21 minutes, 34 seconds
the American public, the American media, and quite frankly, its place within the social contract. 21 minutes, 41 seconds
I'm aware of many stories that came out about politicians, not the FBI director, 21 minutes, 47 seconds
but about public figures during my tenure with the bureau where the people who thought they'd 21 minutes, 54 seconds
been mistreated demanded that an investigation be opened. And every single time the organization 22 minutes, 1 second
refused because if the FBI starts doing something, anything really that is not based on an actual 22 minutes, 10 seconds
threat to national security or a violation of criminal law, then it in and of itself has become 22 minutes, 17 seconds
lawless. It's become a secret police force. I don't think we're there yet. The fact that the 22 minutes, 25 seconds
agents working on this apparently went to Carol and her colleagues actually gives me hope. But 22 minutes, 33 seconds
the fact that Cash Patel might have ordered these people to do it in the first place is just exhibit 22 minutes, 40 seconds
12,647 that he never should have been picked for this job in the first place. Not just because he 22 minutes, 48 seconds
lacks the credentials and the experience, but because he lacks the temperament, the judgment, 22 minutes, 55 seconds
and the integrity. Another bombshell report from The Atlantic about Donald Trump's embattled FBI 23 minutes, 2 seconds
director. Today, the magazine published this photo of quote, "Cash Patel bourbon." The bottle, which 23 minutes, 8 seconds
The Atlantic purchased on eBay, also features a rendering of an FBI shield. The report says, 23 minutes, 14 seconds
quote,
"Pattel has given out bottles of his personalized whiskey to FBI staff
as well as civilians he encounters in his duties." That is according
to eight people, including current and 23 minutes, 24 seconds
former
FBI and Department of Justice employees and others who are familiar
with the matter. In a statement to the magazine, an FBI spokesperson
did not deny Patel hands out whiskey bottles with 23 minutes, 34 seconds
his name on it. Called this a form of gift giving that falls in line with the bureau's quote ethics 23 minutes, 40 seconds
rules. The whiskey scoop comes from Atlantic journalist Sarah Fitzpatrick. It is a followup to 23 minutes, 46 seconds
her reporting from last month. Diving into Patel's controversial tenure as FBI director. The report 23 minutes, 52 seconds
comes on the same day two sources tell MS Now the FBI launched a criminal leak investigation into 23 minutes, 59 seconds
Fitzpatrick's reporting on Patel. Publicly, an FBI spokesperson denied such an investigation. Also 24 minutes, 7 seconds
today, the FBI raided the office of Virginia State Senator Luis Lucas this morning. She recently led 24 minutes, 13 seconds
Virginia's redistricting effort to counter Trump's push to rig the midterms. Details about that raid 24 minutes, 19 seconds
remain murky. We do know an investigation started under the Biden Justice Department, but over the 24 minutes, 24 seconds
course of the last 3 years, no charges have been filed. MSN now also learned Trump lackey Lindseay 24 minutes, 31 seconds
Halligan had been pushing to bring charges in the case. That was before a judge removed Haligan 24 minutes, 36 seconds
as an intram US attorney, ruling her appointment was unlawful. So all of the stories are connected 24 minutes, 44 seconds
here. Um I will note that Cash Patel on April 10th for Sarah Fitzpatrick, she wrote a story on April 24 minutes, 50 seconds
17th that starts with on April 10th, Cash Patel could not log into his FBI account. Essentially, 24 minutes, 56 seconds
he
couldn't get into the system. And instead of thinking he just had the
wrong password, he thought he was fired and started calling his
allies and people in the FBI then started 25 minutes, 4 seconds
calling
the White House and Congress asking who is the FBI director if not
Cash Patel. So um I don't know if this is Balden Wells for his
prospects. But Michael Alisia, 25 minutes, 14 seconds
they
are they have been attacking our democracy from the beginning. They
are actively trying to dismantle it. By they I mean the White House,
the current Republican party apparatus. And they are 25 minutes, 23 seconds
doing
it in various ways. They're attacking the journalists and journalism.
They are attacking um their quote unquote opponents, other dulyeleed
Democratic leaders. They are trafficking and 25 minutes, 34 seconds
sewing misinformation and disinformation. They don't want to answer any questions. We're going to 25 minutes, 39 seconds
slippery slide dive into some crazy stuff. I hear you, Simone, but we got bourbon, so we're good. 25 minutes, 46 seconds
Uh that's I mean that's the level that we're at, folks. I mean, Simone has laid out the indictment 25 minutes, 53 seconds
against not only this FBI a uh director and the agency itself, but this administration, 26 minutes
and yet it boils down to actions like this uh where you just get your own little personal bottle 26 minutes, 6 seconds
of bourbon. I mean, Alicia, what what does that say about where we are here? It says we are deep 26 minutes, 14 seconds
deep into dysfunction. Um but that also we've we've known that this was all coming, right? 26 minutes, 20 seconds
They they've actually told us that their plan was to go after all of the institutions that uphold 26 minutes, 26 seconds
our democracy. There was an actual playbook and now we are watching them run the place. So Simone, 26 minutes, 32 seconds
to your point, um, devastating, upsetting, um, but not surprising. I was surprised, Simone. And 26 minutes, 38 seconds
I
was trying to find in project 2025 the section that said we need to
get a personal bottle of now that that I do believe was improvised
which you know like kudos I guess to Cash Patel for trying 26 minutes, 49 seconds
to put his own spin on it. But again I think it does always always it always goes back to project 26 minutes, 54 seconds
2025 to Alicia's point they telegraphed to us. We had again Kevin Roberts he's not about Trump. 27 minutes
This
is about imbuing Trumpism of journalists in leak investigations. There
might be investigation of the leaker but not the journalist. In
fact, the Biden administration tried to in part codify 27 minutes, 10 seconds
this with internal regulations. Those got walked back uh by this administration. And so, you know, 27 minutes, 16 seconds
what
I'm concerned about here is really twofold. One is that potentially
the administration could call Sarah Fitzpatrick uh to testify, issue
a subpoena for that, and then she would require 27 minutes, 26 seconds
she
would have to either give up her sources or potentially uh face, you
know, some sort of judicial consequence. The other is that the
administration starts seeking digital data from 27 minutes, 36 seconds
her
or other people at the Atlantic. You know, a search, you know, a
search warrant for their email accounts, bank accounts, and so forth.
As part of this investigation, I will just say one thing. You 27 minutes, 46 seconds
know,
this administration has absolutely collapsed the credibility of the
Department of Justice, the the FBI in general. I think it's going to
be really incumbent on magistrate judges in 27 minutes, 56 seconds
investigations
like these to try to look past just the initial things that the
department is saying in seeking these search warrants to try to
understand is this for a proper or improper 28 minutes, 5 seconds
purpose.
Good evening from New York. I'm Chris Hayes. Cash Patel is the most
incompetent FBI director in the country's history. I don't think it's
really even close. He is also willing to go 28 minutes, 15 seconds
whatever
lengths he can to exact retribution from anyone that he feels has
personally wronged him. no qualms about abusing their position and
bringing the full power of the state down 28 minutes, 24 seconds
on
their perceived enemies. In fact, that's why Donald Trump got into the
game to begin with. He seems to have a partner in Cash Patel because
we are learning much more about how dangerous 28 minutes, 33 seconds
the administration's revenge campaign can get. The first development revolves around this bombshell 28 minutes, 38 seconds
report
on Patel's tenure last month by Sarah Fitzpatrick of The Atlantic.
More than two dozen sources in and out of the FBI told Fitzpatrick
Patel frequently disappeared from the job and 28 minutes, 49 seconds
drank to excess that he was erratic, suspicious of others, and prone to jumping conclusions before he 28 minutes, 54 seconds
has necessary evidence. Hm. On multiple occasions in the past year, she wrote, members of a security 29 minutes
detail had difficulty waking Patel because he was seemingly intoxicated. And notably, 29 minutes, 7 seconds
a request for breaching equipment normally used by SWAT and hostage rescue teams to quickly gain 29 minutes, 13 seconds
entry into buildings was made last year because Patel had been unreachable behind locked doors, 29 minutes, 19 seconds
according
to multiple people familiar with the request. Now, you might remember
Patel issued a blanket denial. The Atlantic included that denial in
their piece. Fitzpatrick in the magazine said, 29 minutes, 29 seconds
"We stand by our story, even said they had gotten corroboration from more sources after 29 minutes, 34 seconds
the story was published." Then Patel sued the magazine and the reporter for defamation for 29 minutes, 41 seconds
$250 million. A seemingly rushed, errorridden lawsuit. had a bunch of typos, misspellings in 29 minutes, 47 seconds
it that was ridiculed as an obvious ploy by most legal experts who read it. Today, things appear to 29 minutes, 54 seconds
have escalated because it's no longer the domain of a private lawsuit, but rather the government 30 minutes
that represents all of us. According to exclusive reporting by MS Now reporters Carol Lenig and 30 minutes, 5 seconds
Kendallanian Patel's FBI, which is to say our FBI, the American FBI, has now launched a criminal leak 30 minutes, 14 seconds
investigation into Sarah Fitzpatrick, the author of that Atlantic story, an investigation sources 30 minutes, 19 seconds
call
quote, highly unusual. It could now be used in his excuse to obtain
Fitzpatrick's phone records, run her name and information through FBI
databases, examine her social media 30 minutes, 29 seconds
contacts.
with reporter Carol Lenning about all that in just a second. There's
only one way to interpret it. It is an attempt to chill critical
reporting. It is obviously a flagrant attack on 30 minutes, 39 seconds
the First Amendment. It is not the first time Cash Patel's FBI appears to have done this. Last month, 30 minutes, 45 seconds
you
might remember the New York Times reported the FBI launched a criminal
stalking probe into one of the Times reporters for writing a story
on Patel's girlfriend. Here is how Patel responded 30 minutes, 57 seconds
when asked about those allegations. This same reporter delivered a baseless story which caused 31 minutes, 4 seconds
a
direct threat of life to my girlfriend. We are going to protect not
only me and my loved ones, but every American that is threatened. But
here's the thing. Me and mine are like you and President 31 minutes, 13 seconds
Trump.
We're as tough as they come. We're not going to stand down. We're not
going to take it a knee on this one or anything. Now, that probe went
nowhere. The Times correctly called it what 31 minutes, 23 seconds
it
was. The Trump administration examining whether to criminalize routine
news gathering practices that are widely considered protected by the
First Amendment. Apparently all because of Cash Patel's 31 minutes, 32 seconds
personal animus against reporters. But threatening reporters wasn't the only thing the FBI was up to 31 minutes, 37 seconds
today. Federal agents are arresting people in that string of FBI raids across Virginia. This 31 minutes, 45 seconds
is all connected to an influential Democrat in the Commonwealth of Virginia, State Senator Luis 31 minutes, 50 seconds
Lucas. They are at her office executing warrants as a part of a major corruption probe. Now, 31 minutes, 57 seconds
you see that picture there, the FBI agents in camouflage with long guns. Do you think that's 32 minutes, 4 seconds
necessary
for this raid of the office? Here are those FBI agents this morning
raiding the office of Luise Lucas. Look at them. 82year-old state
representative. Think you think you got to 32 minutes, 15 seconds
do
that for that or you think that's done for the cameras? Lucas, the
second woman of color to serve in Virginia State Senate after growing
up under Jim Crow. The move comes, as you might know, 32 minutes, 25 seconds
just two weeks after it was Lucas, who almost more than anyone else led the successful push 32 minutes, 30 seconds
to redraw Virginia's congressional districts to favor Democrats to respond to the actions 32 minutes, 37 seconds
of Donald Trump and Republican state legislators to tip the playing field. And in in clear defiance 32 minutes, 43 seconds
of Donald Trump, they started, we'll finish it. We would not be in this place if it had not been for 32 minutes, 51 seconds
Donald Trump and his shenanigans and trying to get what he called five new seats that he was entitled 32 minutes, 56 seconds
to. He ain't entitled. I'm sorry. He's entitled to anything. When a statement responding to the raid, 33 minutes, 2 seconds
Lucas
said, quote, I have never been afraid to stand up to Donald Trump or
anyone else that has tried to undermine our democracy, adding, I am
not backing down. The FBI says the raid is part of a 33 minutes, 11 seconds
year'slong corruption invest in investigation into Lucas and a bunch of local cannabis dispensaries 33 minutes, 16 seconds
in Virginia. And that may very well be the case. Maybe. Do you trust them? Can anyone look at this 33 minutes, 25 seconds
FBI
and this Justice Department right now in this moment and simply assume
they are acting in good faith? Assume it's a coincidence these raids
came shortly after the Virginia referendum 33 minutes, 35 seconds
Lucas led. Also, just a week after Patel giddily announced a new criminal indictment of longtime 33 minutes, 42 seconds
Trump critic and former FBI director James Comey, should we also wonder who tipped off a Fox News 33 minutes, 47 seconds
correspondent to Lucas Reid after Fox was the only station on the scene in Southeast Virginia when 33 minutes, 53 seconds
the raid appeared to start? Now again, whatever the facts turn out to be in this case, and again, 33 minutes, 59 seconds
I'm
withholding judgment as to what the actual merit is. It is of course
conceivable there's some wrongdoing here that was investigated. The
thing about where we are right now, and I can't stress 34 minutes, 9 seconds
this enough, is that Trump and Blanch and Patel, the entire administration from the White House 34 minutes, 15 seconds
up down have forfeeded any any presumption of regular order or good faith. In fact, 34 minutes, 23 seconds
they have created a presumption contrary to that. You must assume as a rebuttable presumption that 34 minutes, 31 seconds
what
they're doing is retaliation, that the cases they're bringing aren't
warranted because they want the most powerful law enforcement agency
in the US government to work for them personally and 34 minutes, 40 seconds
no one else. And they've been very clear about that. Even though Sarah Fitzpatrick is already 34 minutes, 46 seconds
being sued by Cash Patel and even though she may be being criminally investigated by Cash Patel's 34 minutes, 52 seconds
FBI tonight, The Atlantic Sarah Fitzpatrick published yet another incredible story about ding 35 minutes
ding
ding, you guessed it, Cash Patel. Now, in this one, eight people
familiar with the matter, including yet again current and former FBI
officials, told Fitzpatrick that it is not 35 minutes, 10 seconds
unusual for Patel to travel with a supply of personalized branded bourbon. Who among us? Now, 35 minutes, 17 seconds
the 750ml bottle that he travels with is engraved with Cash Patel's name and title, 35 minutes, 23 seconds
FBI Director Classy, as well as the symbol of the FBI shield. Now, if you look just below the shield 35 minutes, 30 seconds
on the screen, you will see Cash Patel's name yet again, but this time spelled his preferred way, 35 minutes, 36 seconds
of course, with a dollar sign instead of an S. Again, stay classy, Cash Patel. Stay classy. 35 minutes, 42 seconds
Patellis
also appears to have signed some bottles, writing his signature and
then the number nine, presumably because he's the ninth person to
hold the title of the director of the FBI, 35 minutes, 52 seconds
which leads me to believe he has spent an awful lot of time on this particular merch project. 35 minutes, 59 seconds
Right
now, Fitzpatrick also writes that Patel has distributed these
self-branded bottles to staff and civilians while on official
business, including during at least one FBI event and that 36 minutes, 9 seconds
Patel has even used Justice Department aircraft to transport cases of his bourbon merch. Now, 36 minutes, 16 seconds
when
The Atlantic reached out for comment, the FBI didn't even dispute that
Patel has been giving out these branded booze bottles. Instead, a
spokesperson said that Patellis 36 minutes, 25 seconds
followed all applicable ethical guidelines and pays for any personal gifts himself and portrayed 36 minutes, 31 seconds
the gifting of booze, bourbon, personalized bourbon as routine, saying that the bottles 36 minutes, 37 seconds
in question are part of a tradition in the FBI that started well over a decade ago. Is it now? 36 minutes, 44 seconds
And guess what? When Fitzpatrick tried to fact check that statement, it fell completely apart. 36 minutes, 50 seconds
The FBI declined to provide images of bottles bearing the names of any past directors, 36 minutes, 55 seconds
maybe because they don't exist. And when Fitzpatrick asked a former senior FBI official 37 minutes, 1 second
if he had ever seen any personally branded liquor bottles distributed by any previous FBI directors, 37 minutes, 7 seconds
he burst out laughing. Now, the story here is it's not just that Cash Patel allegedly drinks 37 minutes, 15 seconds
a lot. By this point, we've all seen him drinking with our own eyes. We all remember that visual. 37 minutes, 20 seconds
The story is that Cash Patel allegedly drinks a ton at work as the boss in a workplace that 37 minutes, 26 seconds
traditionally has had a zero tolerance approach to drinking on the job and even the abuse of alcohol 37 minutes, 31 seconds
off duty because it is our chief law enforcement agency. As one former FBI agent told Fitzpatrick, 37 minutes, 37 seconds
"The bottles are demoralizing as they suggest one set of standards for the FBI's director 37 minutes, 43 seconds
and another for the rest of the bureau." Now, the lawyer for another former agent, former assistant 37 minutes, 49 seconds
director
in charge of the FBI's Washington field office, Steven Jensen, told
Fitzpatrick, quote, "There are line agents out there spending their
nights and weekends trying to finish warrants, 37 minutes, 58 seconds
write reports, plan arrests. Yet, the FBI director apparently has the time to design logos, 38 minutes, 4 seconds
go to hockey games, sit for multi-our podcast interviews. This is one of the most serious jobs 38 minutes, 10 seconds
in
the country, not a vehicle for self-promotion and branding." That's
very well stated. Now, when Fitzpatrick published her first big scoop
about Cash Patel last month, part of what was so 38 minutes, 19 seconds
amazing
about it was that she had more than two dozen sources. I spoke to her
that very night that the piece came out and she told me that even
more people from inside the bureau were already 38 minutes, 30 seconds
trying to talk to her, trying to tell her about Cash Patel, and they weren't doing that lightly. 38 minutes, 37 seconds
These are not the types of people who are willing to speak out outside of the FBI, especially right 38 minutes, 44 seconds
now because Cash Patel is going after people with polygraphs in a way that has never happened at the 38 minutes, 50 seconds
bureau. So for it to be this level of alarm, this this is people genuinely concerned that 38 minutes, 55 seconds
America is a danger as a result of this conduct and um I feel you know a real responsibility to 39 minutes, 1 second
take care of that reporting incredibly carefully. The surface district said that those people spoke 39 minutes, 7 seconds
to her last month because they worried about the safety of our country with this guy in charge of 39 minutes, 13 seconds
keeping
us safe. That guy right there. There you go with Christine Gnome. And
now even with a potential criminal investigation to leakers and a
massive defamation lawsuit. More people 39 minutes, 23 seconds
have
come forward to say that they do not think Cash Patel's behavior is
fit for his office. Now I want I want you to just keep that story in
your head. I want you to just think about how hard the 39 minutes, 33 seconds
FBI is working to try to catch leakers who say bad things about Cash Patel's personal behavior. And I 39 minutes, 39 seconds
want you to compare that to this. Breaking news now. A very influential Democrat from Virginia, 39 minutes, 46 seconds
State Senator Luis Lucas, is at the center of a major FBI corruption investigation right now. 39 minutes, 52 seconds
In fact, agents are executing search warrants across the Commonwealth, including her office. 39 minutes, 58 seconds
Alex Hogan is in Portsouth, Virginia. Alex, now this morning when the FBI raided the office of a 40 minutes, 6 seconds
prominent Democratic state official in Virginia, Fox News was on the scene. They had camera crews 40 minutes, 11 seconds
on
location ready to film as SWAT teams and FBI vans raided Virginia
State Senator Louise Lucas's office and nearby businesses. And that
is pretty impressive considering that Portsmith, 40 minutes, 22 seconds
Virginia, you can see it on the map there, is about a threehour drive from Fox's office in 40 minutes, 28 seconds
DC. It is 200 miles away. Now, maybe Fox just got lucky. Maybe they just had a reporter around the 40 minutes, 35 seconds
corner
just kind of hanging out in Portsouth and a whole camera crew when it
started, when the raid started. But it strikes me as a lot more
plausible that someone in the FBI leaked the timing of the 40 minutes, 46 seconds
raid
to them. Now, well, Luis Lucas is a huge deal in Virginia politics.
She's the speaker of the state senate. She's primarily known on the
national stage for just one thing. Earlier this 40 minutes, 56 seconds
year,
she led the effort to redraw the state's congressional maps, which
would help could help Democrats win another four seats in the
midterms and counterbalance the gerrymandering Republicans 41 minutes, 5 seconds
have
done in other states. And the raid was reportedly part of an
investigation that opened under the Biden administration that
examined potential corruption and bribery. But beyond that, 41 minutes, 15 seconds
the
Department of Justice has not released any information. Now, we don't
have, as I've said, any real details on the reasoning for the raid or
what exactly they're accusing Lucas of doing. So, 41 minutes, 25 seconds
is it plausible there was actual wrongdoing by Lucas? Sure, it's plausible, but the context 41 minutes, 31 seconds
is
everything here because a source familiar with the matter tells MS
Now's Carol Lenic that Trump's former US attorney for the Eastern
District of Virginia, the district where this investigation 41 minutes, 40 seconds
is likely based, believed bringing a case against Louise Lucas would be good for the White House. 41 minutes, 46 seconds
That
bringing a bribery case against a prominent Democrat before the
midterms would be good for the White House, even though other
prosecutors at the office were not sure about the strength of the 41 minutes, 56 seconds
case. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? As Virginia's Attorney General Jay Jones put it today, "We 42 minutes, 1 second
simply
do not have sufficient information about the reported FBI activity in
Portsouth. However, several previous actions of the US Attorney's
Office for the Eastern District of Virginia 42 minutes, 11 seconds
have
undermined public confidence in that office. I urge everyone to
exercise restraint and judgment until the relevant facts are known in
this matter." Now, there's a lot of stories 42 minutes, 21 seconds
going
on. I just want you to keep that story in your head. I want you to
think about how the FBI raided the office of a prominent Democratic
lawmaker right after she did something Trump 42 minutes, 30 seconds
did
not like and how Fox News just happened to be there to film it. I want
you to think about that and compare it to this because yesterday we
learned that the Justice Department has agreed 42 minutes, 41 seconds
to
quote return or destroy evidence seized from MAGA Republican
Congressman Andy Ogles. If the name Andy Ogles isn't ringing any
bells, it's probably because former Congressman George 42 minutes, 51 seconds
Santos,
you remember that guy, sort of stole a thunder for a while. Because
for a while, the two seem to be competing for the title of the most
prolific liar in Congress. I mean, 43 minutes, 1 second
according
to local Tennessee news reports, Ogul's claimed to be an economist,
but it turned out he had only ever actually taken one single
community college economics course, and he barely passed it. 43 minutes, 11 seconds
He
claimed to have served for years on the board of directors of a city
that it turns out does not have a board of directors at all. I could
go on, but you get the point here, right? Back in 2024, 43 minutes, 23 seconds
the
FBI seized Andy Ogle's phone as part of an investigation. You see,
among the things Andy Ogles appears to have lied about were campaign
contributions. A serious thing to lie about. He 43 minutes, 33 seconds
claimed that he had donated $320,000 to his own campaign back in 2022. But it turned out that the 43 minutes, 39 seconds
congressman
appeared to be broke. In his financial disclosures, he did not appear
to even have a checking or a savings account of any kind. Now, Ogles
later admitted that he had not, in fact, 43 minutes, 48 seconds
donated $320,000 to his own campaign, but he never really explained why he apparently lied about all 43 minutes, 54 seconds
of it. And campaign contributions are serious business. There are a lot of laws involved. So, 44 minutes
the FBI seized Ogle's phone. That was at the end of 2024. But guess what? When Trump took office 44 minutes, 6 seconds
last year, suddenly just 11 days into Trump's new term, the career prosecutors handling the case 44 minutes, 13 seconds
withdrew from it. The case was handed up to be run completely out of main justice in Washington DC. 44 minutes, 20 seconds
Now, at the same time, Ogles was in the running, he put himself in the running for, I should say, 44 minutes, 25 seconds
a new highly competitive title, biggest suckup to Donald Trump. And he did a lot to try to 44 minutes, 32 seconds
get there. He introduced a bill to give Trump the power to buy Greenland. He nominated Trump for the 44 minutes, 37 seconds
Nobel Peace Prize. And maybe most amazingly, Ogles proposed a constitutional amendment to allow Trump 44 minutes, 44 seconds
to
serve a third term. He even specifically worded that amendment so it
would only allow third terms from presidents who hadn't served two
consecutive terms, meaning it would let Trump serve a third 44 minutes, 54 seconds
term, but not Obama. There you go. And now after all that sucking up, the investigation to Ogle's 45 minutes, 1 second
lying about a massive campaign contribution seems to be just quietly going away in a vacuum. Each 45 minutes, 8 seconds
of
these stories individually are reason for concern about what happened,
what is happening at the Justice Department right now. But taken
together, they are a blaring alarm. And when you 45 minutes, 18 seconds
put them in the context of the past year, it's all the worse. The Justice Department has investigated 45 minutes, 24 seconds
or
charged so many perceived Trump enemies. It is genuinely getting hard
to track and we may miss people in this list. Former FBI director
James Comey, former CIA Director John Brennan, 45 minutes, 34 seconds
New
York Attorney General Leticia James, Senator Mark Kelly, Senator
Alyssa Slackin, Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander, Congressman Jason
Crowe, Congresswoman Christy Hulahan, Congressman 45 minutes, 42 seconds
Chris
Duzio, former National Security Adviser John Bolton, Federal Reserve
Chair Jerome Powell, Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook, Senator Adam
Schiff, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, 45 minutes, 51 seconds
Minnesota Governor Tim Walls, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry, St. Mayor uh St. Paula Mayor Kelly her, 45 minutes, 57 seconds
Minnesota
Attorney General Keith Ellison, Henipin County Attorney Mary Morardti.
The list is just unfathomable at this point, but the pattern is
clear. Trump is using the Justice Department to 46 minutes, 8 seconds
help
his friends and go after his enemies. Last night, former President
Barack Obama was issued he issued a stark warning on exactly this
issue during the interview with Steven Coar.46 minutes, 20 seconds
We can survive a lot. bad policy, funky elections. There there's a bunch of stuff that, you know, 46 minutes, 28 seconds
we we can overcome. We can't overcome the politization of the criminal justice system. The 46 minutes, 35 seconds
the
the awesome power of the state. You you can't have a situation in
which uh whoever's in charge of the government starts using that to go
after their political enemies or reward their friends.
MS NOW
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